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Accutane Toxicity, is there a cure?
I'm suffering from Vitamin A toxicity due to isotretinoin treatment 2 years ago.
My most noticeable side effects, fatigue, anxiety, joint pains and shortness of breath, have not gone away or even improved since stopping isotretinoin, it is actually worse day by day.
This problem has affected my work and personal life for the past 2 years.
Has anyone found a cure or a way to detox the body from Vitamin A toxicity?
I have heard of taurine + vitamin E, can anyone confirm it helps against HVA?
(btw, this treatment is extremely dangerous for the body, it causes birth defect like cocaine or lithium, the risks for clean skin are insane, should be banned worldwide)
@nihon I have been on two rounds of accutane, low VA is the only thing that has helped my similar issues. I am over 2.5yrs on low VA, it takes time under low VA and patience to see results.
I have tested hundreds of supplements and many many diet approaches, nothing has helped, all band-aids if anything.
People need to make a distinction between accutane recovery and vA toxicity recovery. Accutane is just nuking your body with retinoic acid, none of that gets stored. If all you did was take accutane, you're not vA 'toxic' per se, but the damage you did to your body is akin to that of vA toxicity.
If you want to recover from accutane, you need to focus on anti aging strategies, not just avoid vA.
Quote from Orion on June 11, 2021, 9:49 am@nihon I have been on two rounds of accutane, low VA is the only thing that has helped my similar issues. I am over 2.5yrs on low VA, it takes time under low VA and patience to see results.
I have tested hundreds of supplements and many many diet approaches, nothing has helped, all band-aids if anything.
I started this diet a few days ago, hope to see some results soon.
How long did it take to see some positive results?
@nihon My advice would be to track this in 6month segments. Sleep, skin, mood, physical feeling...
@andrei I think it has been said, that without the co-factors to properly convert/excrete the retinoic acid, it does end up stored in cells. I would think with the accutane dosage amounts that this could happen. Either way, I did the best of both worlds approach, and mega dosed VA(CLO, liver, eggs, diary, supplements) and accutane.
There is no known mechanism by which retinoic acid is cycled back to retinal. The idea that it doesn't get stored is evident even by the fact that liver damage from accutane seems to subside shortly after discontinuing it (liver has the highest regenerative capability out of any organ, and its fast regeneration indicates that it faced acute toxicity rather than chronic).
If you could find a paper that even hints at how that might work, I'd appreciate it.
For all I can tell, the rat study with corn and lard that Grant uses to debunk the idea of vA deficiency showcases why it's not likely that we can convert retinoic acid back into retinal. If they could, the animals wouldn't have died so abruptly. Instead, they would have suffered a slower death due to the staggering of the retinoic acid through storage or lack of cofactors to metabolize either form.
@andrei Thanks for the follow up, I wondered since retinoic acid cannot be cycled back to an aldehyde form, that the insane amounts in accutane dosages couldn't be safely excreted quickly and that it would be taken up in cells somehow (lack of taurine, or any co-factor needed to conjugate it).
I think @ggenereux2014 mentioned this somewhere, just not sure if there is proof/studies on this, or just an hypothesis.
I'd be interested to see evidence of 13-cis-retinoic acid getting stored after Accutane. It's an important question. It's definitely an end metabolite.
Excess vitamin A in our liver causes our serum retinol to be elevated which causes elevated levels of retinoic acid in our body. Retinoic acid is the hormonal end metabolite of vitamin A. There are two main metabolites, all-trans-retinoic acid and 13-cis-retinoic acid. Accutane is 13-cis-retinoic acid. Lowering liver and serum levels of retinol is the first and most important step for healing from Accutane because all of the physiology that was harmed by Accutane will still be harmed in the same way by excess 13-cis-retinoic acid from vitamin A metabolism. Aside from lowering vitamin A levels there is a lot that can be done. Excess retinoic acid causes the depletion of most or all other vitamins. It also affects amino acid and mineral levels.
Intravenous vitamin C has been used to save patients dying from infectious disease. From the work of Mawson we know that transient Hypervitaminosis A is a major mechanism for harm during infectious disease. We also know that intravenous vitamin C can quickly lower elevated levels of retinoic acid. So it seems likely that intravenous vitamin C saves lives due to acting as an antidote against retinoic acid. However supplemental vitamin C is problematic when taken long term due to increasing oxalate production and other reasons. It's important to include a few low vitamin A fruit and vegetables in the diet though.
B vitamin levels are dramatically affected by elevated retinoic acid. Thiamin, riboflavin, folate, biotin, B12 are all affected. As with vitamin C I think that in acute situations supplementation is important however for long term healing I just recommend making sure your diet has sufficient amounts of these nutrients. Include beans and pork for thiamin. Beef, mushrooms and squid are high in riboflavin. Beans and cabbage for folate. I recommend a couple of eggs per week for biotin.
Vitamin E acts as an antidote to retinoic acid. A small amount of nuts in the diet is very helpful. I personally consume unfortified almond milk with whole grain cereal for breakfast.
Vitamin K2 acts as an antidote to retinoic acid. We make it from K1 so cabbage is very good. Meat and meat fat like lard is the best source of K2 in terms of A:K2 ratio.
Vitamin D acts as an antidote to retinoic acid, the active form, calcitriol competes against retinoic acid at nuclear receptors.
Selenium and iodine are best obtained from seafood. Molybdenum is best obtained from legumes.
Every food group with the exception of dairy products can assist with recovering from Accutane. We don't have to eat a whole foods diet but it's a good idea to include small amounts of seafood, eggs, low vitamin A fruit, low vitamin A vegetables, mushrooms, legumes, whole grains and nuts.
I'm not recommending this but the quickest way to lower serum retinoic acid levels is to smoke.
Quote from tim on June 13, 2021, 7:24 amExcess vitamin A in our liver causes our serum retinol to be elevated which causes elevated levels of retinoic acid in our body. Retinoic acid is the hormonal end metabolite of vitamin A. There are two main metabolites, all-trans-retinoic acid and 13-cis-retinoic acid. Accutane is 13-cis-retinoic acid. Lowering liver and serum levels of retinol is the first and most important step for healing from Accutane because all of the physiology that was harmed by Accutane will still be harmed in the same way by excess 13-cis-retinoic acid from vitamin A metabolism. Aside from lowering vitamin A levels there is a lot that can be done. Excess retinoic acid causes the depletion of most or all other vitamins. It also affects amino acid and mineral levels.
Intravenous vitamin C has been used to save patients dying from infectious disease. From the work of Mawson we know that transient Hypervitaminosis A is a major mechanism for harm during infectious disease. We also know that intravenous vitamin C can quickly lower elevated levels of retinoic acid. So it seems likely that intravenous vitamin C saves lives due to acting as an antidote against retinoic acid. However supplemental vitamin C is problematic when taken long term due to increasing oxalate production and other reasons. It's important to include a few low vitamin A fruit and vegetables in the diet though.
B vitamin levels are dramatically affected by elevated retinoic acid. Thiamin, riboflavin, folate, biotin, B12 are all affected. As with vitamin C I think that in acute situations supplementation is important however for long term healing I just recommend making sure your diet has sufficient amounts of these nutrients. Include beans and pork for thiamin. Beef, mushrooms and squid are high in riboflavin. Beans and cabbage for folate. I recommend a couple of eggs per week for biotin.
Vitamin E acts as an antidote to retinoic acid. A small amount of nuts in the diet is very helpful. I personally consume unfortified almond milk with whole grain cereal for breakfast.
Vitamin K2 acts as an antidote to retinoic acid. We make it from K1 so cabbage is very good. Meat and meat fat like lard is the best source of K2 in terms of A:K2 ratio.
Vitamin D acts as an antidote to retinoic acid, the active form, calcitriol competes against retinoic acid at nuclear receptors.
Selenium and iodine are best obtained from seafood. Molybdenum is best obtained from legumes.
Every food group with the exception of dairy products can assist with recovering from Accutane. We don't have to eat a whole foods diet but it's a good idea to include small amounts of seafood, eggs, low vitamin A fruit, low vitamin A vegetables, mushrooms, legumes, whole grains and nuts.
I'm not recommending this but the quickest way to lower serum retinoic acid levels is to smoke.
Thanks for sharing. What exactly do you eat in a day typically?