I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Friend says pro-formed VA like beta carotene and other cartenoids are safe to eat.
Citing "many science literature" saying that proformed A is not bad for you because the body only converts it to vitamin A as needed. So he began eating sweet potatoes and avocados.
I told him he's wrong but couldn't convince him of why. All I know is my own experience. Is he really wrong? If so how can I convince him?
"As noted above, vitamin A toxicity can occur from either topical or oral use. Oral vitamin A delivery comes in two forms: provitamin A (a prodrug that is metabolized to vitamin A) and preformed vitamin A. Pre-formed vitamin A is obtained from animal food sources, including dairy products and liver, and in most supplements. A list of other foods containing Vitamin A includes milk, cheese, margarine, butter, eggs, chicken, chicken liver, beef, beef liver, processed meats, pizza, fish, and cold breakfast cereals[1]. Provitamin A (beta-carotene and other carotenoids), found in plants such as green leafy vegetables, sweet potatoes, and carrots, must be metabolized to vitamin A. As a result, it is less likely to cause toxicity."
I think Grant will rip that argument apart, maybe starting with the case where sweet potatoes caused severe toxicity in South America. As for "the body only converts it to Vitamin A as needed", this sounds like coming from someone who has not read anything from Grant's research. The whole point of the experiment we are doing (10 months for me) is to prove vitamin A is NOT needed because it is not a vitamin but a toxin. Obviously the body has ways to deal with it but not because it needs it. Rather it has developed ways to protect itself from it.
That said, I also react differently to retinols and carotines. My skin will flare up much more severely when retinols are ingested. What form of retinol it is also matters. I might never find out why that is. Maybe high heat processing oxidizes retinol into retinoic acid - I don't really care. This does not mean that carotines are safer. But if I had to introduce some foods back into my diet, I would pick strawberry over butter any day. However, having had no or extremely little vit A for almost a year has proved to me that Vit A is indeed toxic. I have had vast improvements.
I used to be raw vegan for a while. I had friends whose carotine consumption was sky high along with zero retinol consumption. On some of them I could see the usual signs of toxicity even when they had enough calories (which is hard on a raw vegan diet) - hair turning grey, falling out, teeth falling out, eyesight deteriorating, etc. Grant might explain in detail.
Have a look on Garrett Smiths website under case studies. There are some there from carotenoid consumption.
https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/forum/low-poison-vitamin-a-anecdotes-examples-observations/
Toxin or not, there are ways for the body to deal with carotenoids and retinoids.
If your friend has no trouble with them, there's no reason to restrict his diet.
He should be very careful with orange sweet potatoes though. They are sky high in beta carotene. It would take much less of them vs carrots to induce carotenemia.
But how would his friend know if he has trouble with them? Would you feel it when your kidney's epithelial tissues start to deteriorate over time? Would you feel it if the artery in your left leg would start developing plaque? Come on... reactions to toxins are often not something you feel or see right away. They do damage over time and symptoms are very slow to appear. But of course, listening to your body is important, I grant you that.
Listening to the body is key. If his friend is eating those vegetables because they are healthy, I would advise him to dial down, but all plants have defense mechanisms against being eaten. It's impossible to avoid all of them, cooking and other processing reduce them to make food safer to eat.
I did the diet for a while and had some benefits from it and it made me understand that colorful plants are not the health foods they are touted to be. I eat them when I want them and shun them when they are unappetizing. I never had any serious health issues though, that might be why I had only early benefits.
Thanks everyone. I needed this. My mind is scattered all over the place and my memory and retention isn't what it should be.
There is a study floating around where the researchers gave the participants beta carotene to prevent cancer in smokers. They had to end the study early because the carotene group were getting many more cancers than the control group. If beta carotene is not in someway toxic it's hard to explain that result.
The carotenes, particularly lycopene really mess up my stomach and skin. Which is a annoying because I love tomatoes.
I also stopped drinking orange juice (even from freshly squeezed oranges) because it was making my gums recede. I didn't associate it with the carotene until I started also taking retinol (which sped the process up), it was odd actually, a vitamin C source giving me scurvy like symptoms. I'd already noticed I reacted badly to anything more than the occasional sweet potato, yet another thing I didn't make the connection on, but since finding Grant's blog makes a lot more sense.
I'd been eating eggs, and dairy with no problems up till the point I was hitting the orange juice hard, so if I could go back I'd avoid the carotenes and not be that concerned about the preformed stuff.
And when you look at the amounts of Carotenes in rich plant foods the amounts are astonishing.
Quote from SpokilyDoesIt on May 11, 2019, 2:45 pmThere is a study floating around where the researchers gave the participants beta carotene to prevent cancer in smokers. They had to end the study early because the carotene group were getting many more cancers than the control group. If beta carotene is not in someway toxic it's hard to explain that result.
The carotenes, particularly lycopene really mess up my stomach and skin. Which is a annoying because I love tomatoes.
I also stopped drinking orange juice (even from freshly squeezed oranges) because it was making my gums recede. I didn't associate it with the carotene until I started also taking retinol (which sped the process up), it was odd actually, a vitamin C source giving me scurvy like symptoms. I'd already noticed I reacted badly to anything more than the occasional sweet potato, yet another thing I didn't make the connection on, but since finding Grant's blog makes a lot more sense.
I'd been eating eggs, and dairy with no problems up till the point I was hitting the orange juice hard, so if I could go back I'd avoid the carotenes and not be that concerned about the preformed stuff.
And when you look at the amounts of Carotenes in rich plant foods the amounts are astonishing.
Interesting, I will try and point him to that study.
I get the same thing from eating oranges. I stopped drinking orange juice over two decades ago because it makes my throat itch and makes my estacuhian tubes clogged up.
I did continue to eat oranges but my teeth and gums would hurt and become sensitive for a couple days. I always thought it was the acidity though, but don’t know how VA is I involved.
With this low A diet and cutting out everything my teeth are not sensitive to hot and cold anymore.
In my case I could rule out acidity as I've always loved sour stuff, pickles, vinegar, lemonades, coke etc but never had a problem with my gums. Certainly acids can be hard on the enamel, it was the receding that was different and it's specifically the OJ, for whatever reason.
As for why, Grant hypothesised that scurvy might actually be a manifestation of vitamin A toxicity but protected against somewhat by vitamin C.