I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
My Story
Hello
I have been lurking here since February - I've read quite a lot of posts and been very interested in what I've seen. Let me tell you how I got here - I want to add to this resource with what I have noticed about diet and symptoms.
I'm a male in my mid-thirties. In September of 2021 I noticed I was shedding more hair than usual, following a six month plus period of high stress. Concerned, I upped my iron and zinc intake. A few weeks later I went running - not something I usually do, although I am extremely fit otherwise (rock climber). Following this I noticed my right shin had a bulging vein; prior to this I had zero awareness of any such varicosities on my body at all. At the same time, I developed other symptoms: big increase in eye floaters. I developed a small ulcer on my right leg, patches of "chicken skin" and a red scale like patch along the shin also. Injuries were not healing well at all, even small nicks and scrapes. Horrible heart palpitations that would wake me at night. I was also sleeping very poorly. By Christmas, an awful feeling like my pulse was too low and that I could faint - one night was particularly bad as I could quite literally feel a complete absence of adrenaline despite feeling extremely panicked. My pulse remained close to 40bpm, and in an effort to raise it I did some vigorous exercise, which took my over 100bpm but I dropped almost immediately back to 40. I had a deep sense of impending doom, which I would later discover to be a warning sign of heart attack.
What on earth could be causing these problems? I immediately looked at my diet: veganism. There was a sudden feeling that it might be actually damaging me, and on Christmas Day I ate meat again for the first time, and very quickly felt much better for it. Most of the symptoms remained but the heart issues subsided, as did the scale problem, and the ulcer healed. I went deep into looking at Ray Peat, before discovering this theory on his forums in Feb.
For the past five years I had been vegan, and suddenly vitamin A overload made an enormous amount of sense. My go-to meal several times a week was sweet potato, kale, red pepper, spinach. I must have eaten an unbelievable amount of sweet potato over those years, with the highest quantity coming in that last year of being vegan. So, I pulled right back on vitamin A intake to see what the results might be.
It has been 3-4 months since I started and I have definitely seen improvements in my health, most directly my mental state. I am even fitter than I was before, and feeling much stronger physically with it. My other symptoms, like veins and hair and eye floaters have continued to get a little worse however. I came across one post on here where some said that, after 20 or so months of low VA, their veins began to heal.
Regarding veins, something about the explanations for varicose veins made little sense. How could it be that a vein, losing its valvular structural integrity, would be capable of then bulging through the strong epidermis? In addition, I have seen studies where vein have been found without valves that are not varicose. It occurred to me that retinoic acid, if it destroys epithelial systems, would be quite capable of weakening the skin allowing perfectly well functioning veins to bulge through. In fact when I am resting with feet up, they subside and I can literally feel the scar-like dent in the skin: in my mind the epithelial layer under the skin has become exceedingly weakened by something, and retinoic acid seems like a good candidate. This explanation might be why one of my older siblings developed horrendous varicose veins in his twenties - I remembered that he had terrible acne as a teenager, and you can guess what creams and pills he took until it went away...
Regarding the other skin issues, it simply matches very closely what Grant describes as scurvy. In fact, long before reading about VA toxicity, I did just think that I had scurvy, the symptoms seemed so close! And yet, how could this be, given the amount of fruit and veg I was eating?
Regarding eye floaters (and veins, perhaps), the liver is responsible in some way I don't quite understand for correct collagen production. Obviously mine had, all of a sudden, failed to function correctly in this regard.
Regarding the heart, I had at one point suspected atherosclerosis. Perhaps my vitamin K gut-bacteria had been affected by many antibiotics in the past, affecting the calcium in my body, contributing to some of the other symptoms also.
So, these are just some musings. As I mentioned, some of my symptoms remain.
After reading @liz thread on oxalates very recently, I wonder now whether the oxalate-va interaction is extremely important to consider with regards to health. I consume(d) a huge amount of peanut butter - it was like a staple for me. Dates also, and miso, soy products. I have had a nagging feeling for many years that something in my right kidney isn't working properly - occasional undiagnosed sharp pains in that region - perhaps I have a stone. In any case, I am interested to see what happens when I reduce my oxalates now too. I will also be lowering sugar. In addition I will be taking bromelain, as I have noticed fibroid lumps in my shins that I theorise are also related to these other symptoms - bromelain is renowned for reducing eye floaters as it eats away at fibrous collagen formations, and intuitively I feel that it is connected. I have also read that research suggests a very beneficial use for it with veins for the reason that it eats away at the scar tissue (and my own thinking then is that it will allow epithelial layers in the skin to heal).
I hope this is interesting to some people and I am keen to see what others make of these thoughts. Thanks for reading!
@andrew If you want to heal I suggest you cut out all plants and focus solely on ruminant animal meat (no organs), fat and butter.
Plant foods have a degenerative effect on the human body - all of them, some more, some less, nevermind the individual components like carotenoids, oxalates, you name it. If it's a plant its long term effect on our bodies is net negative, as you've experienced yourself very vividly.
Many animal foods have a regenerative effect on the human body, except storage organs that store plant toxins (liver, kidneys, spleen) or those that live in an altogether different environment compared to humans, such as cold water fish etc. It's best to avoid those unless you like to eat them rotten/fermented.
@carnivore , but then you end up with too much iron. I think humans are meant to be omnivore, otherwise imbalances will happen. That's an interesting point you make about cold water fish, I've never heard it before.
Clearly, many people do not wind up with too much iron when doing carnivore because there are plenty of examples of long-term carnivores without iron problems. In fact, Shawn Baker says that he's seen people with hemochromatosis fix their iron problems on a carnivore diet with plenty of red meat. The liver regulates iron uptake via hepcidin. If your liver/hepcidin is messed up, then of course you could wind up with too much iron, but that is no fault of a carnivore diet.
@wavygravygadzooks, but I think that for anyone coming from vitamin A toxicity liver is not in an optimal state.
Quote from Andrew on July 13, 2022, 5:00 am...Regarding veins, something about the explanations for varicose veins made little sense. How could it be that a vein, losing its valvular structural integrity, would be capable of then bulging through the strong epidermis? In addition, I have seen studies where vein have been found without valves that are not varicose. It occurred to me that retinoic acid, if it destroys epithelial systems, would be quite capable of weakening the skin allowing perfectly well functioning veins to bulge through. In fact when I am resting with feet up, they subside and I can literally feel the scar-like dent in the skin: in my mind the epithelial layer under the skin has become exceedingly weakened by something, and retinoic acid seems like a good candidate. This explanation might be why one of my older siblings developed horrendous varicose veins in his twenties - I remembered that he had terrible acne as a teenager, and you can guess what creams and pills he took until it went away...
...Perhaps my vitamin K gut-bacteria had been affected by many antibiotics in the past, affecting the calcium in my body, contributing to some of the other symptoms also.
...I will also be lowering sugar. In addition I will be taking bromelain, as I have noticed fibroid lumps in my shins that I theorise are also related to these other symptoms - bromelain is renowned for reducing eye floaters as it eats away at fibrous collagen formations, and intuitively I feel that it is connected. I have also read that research suggests a very beneficial use for it with veins for the reason that it eats away at the scar tissue (and my own thinking then is that it will allow epithelial layers in the skin to heal).
I hope this is interesting to some people and I am keen to see what others make of these thoughts. Thanks for reading!
Yes, as @jaj says, this is all very interesting @Andrew.
I concurr with your theories about veins, and I'm not sure if I've mentioned it, but I feel that the spider-vein zone of my upper thighs are now "rubbery". I say that in a GOOD way. The areas are tougher, stronger, rubbery-er. They feel less vulnerable.
I see spots in my rosacea patch on my forehead that are "lower" or "cratered" and wonder if rosace is also about the epithelia of the skin and not the capillaries. I suppose it could be both, however. I hope these areas fill in. I've seen pictures of people who have recovered from rosacea and the area can be pitted or creased. As we know, acne can do this as well.
I can see how, since VA leaves via the back end, people end up with hemorrhoids. I wonder if enzymes along with lowered VA will help my friends with those problems. Miserable. But I would imagine this might take almost forever because bad stuff will keep coming past. Perhaps there is a place for take-along wipes and a protective lotion (without plant toxins) such as vaseline. I use it to protect the inside of my nose, possibly in a similar manner.
I've been reading about enzymes helping with covid and/or covid shot issues. There seems to be problems with amyloids or fibrins. I wonder if enzymes would help those here whose noses have stopped working such as @beata.
Edited to add that I've put a sugar bowl back on my table after all these years of lowish carbing it. I don't use too much, but I now consider it sort of a "well behaved" carb hahaha... (strange bedfellows).
I was first and foremost addressing your comment: "I think humans are meant to be omnivore, otherwise imbalances will happen." I think that is plainly false based on the data we've got, and I think using that logic to argue that we shouldn't eat meat rich in iron every day is completely wrong.
Secondarily, I've never had lab results that indicated my liver function was tanked, even though I'm about 100% sure that I've had Vitamin A toxicity for years. Some people with Vitamin A toxicity will have severely compromised liver function, but is it the cause or the consequence of Vitamin A toxicity, and what specific functions of the liver are compromised? It does not appear to be the case that all liver functions tank at the same time...some functions will surely continue to be more active than others depending on the particular cause of liver disease.
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on July 15, 2022, 12:04 pmI was first and foremost addressing your comment: "I think humans are meant to be omnivore, otherwise imbalances will happen." I think that is plainly false based on the data we've got, and I think using that logic to argue that we shouldn't eat meat rich in iron every day is completely wrong.
Yes I understood that you meant general case. As an example, after 2 years on mostly rice and beef my ferritin (which reflects iron I suppose) went just above the lab range limit, while before the diet it was more or less close to the bottom. Based on how I feel I suspect that both high vit A and high iron are as equally evil. There could be people who will thrive on all meat diet, but I doubt it's a majority.
Well, a diet of rice and meat is not an all-meat diet, for one. Two, high ferritin does not mean you have excess iron, it just means you have a lot of iron bound to ferritin. Paul Mason thinks that the body mistakenly treats inflammatory conditions like insulin resistance the same way as it would infection because in our evolutionary environment the primary source of systemic inflammation would have been infection, in which case keeping iron bound to ferritin prevents the infectious agent from making use of the iron, thereby helping to fight the infection.