Quote from Nellie on May 16, 2025, 4:11 am

Nellie's full history -

This is my full and long Vit-A story that starts at a young age. It is compounded by stress on my liver from taking NSAIDs, food choices and skin creams. It will be TL;DR but if you can stick with it, I hope that it may help others with the same problems, as well as highlight the errors that I’ve made along the way when trying to ‘fix’ myself. The clear cause for many of my health issues (not all!) is manifestly clear… but regrettably I did not know that at the time:

• The quality of food as a child was not amazing, grew up below the poverty line, overall diet consisted of some protein, vege/fruit, quite a bit of tin food (lots of creamed corn & baked beans), other processed foods, added sugar. Later in life, lots of tomatoes & sweet potato, carrots, etc. to name a few…
• 1983 (10): was involved in little athletics, developed a very sore knee; diagnosed with fluid on the knee – treatment: told to stop running!
• 1985 (12): extremely painful & heavy periods where at times I would pass out from the pain.
• 1987 (14): Dr consulted, incl. Gynaecologist; no diagnoses proffered; prescribed contraceptive pill (which regulated cycles but did nothing for pain/heaviness) & took copious amounts of paracetamol/NSAIDs.
• 1987-1990: took paracetamol/NSAIDs on a near weekly basis to manage pain & other inflammation.
• 1990: spent a season picking mangoes (& eating lots of them!) my hands developed a terrible rash, felt & looked like a burn. Looking back, I now know that my hands were suffering from the urushiol oil in mango peel.
• 1990-1995: Drs consulted again; different contraceptive pills prescribed. At no time was PCOS or other female disorders considered as a possibility; but during this time, I was once sent for a scan to rule out appendicitis, as I had severe pain on the right side of my gut area but I did not have my period – this scan revealed nothing, except I was asked by the Dr reviewing the scan if I needed to ‘use the bathroom’, yes was the answer & I was rebuked for having wasted their time – due to embarrassment, I never mentioned when this same severe symptom came back – so hold this thought if you make it to the end…
• 1995 (21): pregnant, stopped contraceptive pill – noticed a huge improvement in my overall mental wellbeing and never took it again!
• 1996 (22) 1^st child & 1997 (24) 2^nd child – absolutely loved being pregnant and not just because of the bundle of joy at the end, but it was the first time since the age of 12 that I was able to go for long stretches of time without severe monthly pain! When going into labour, nurses were pleasantly surprised when my contractions came on that I had such a high pain threshold level and remarked that I didn’t complain about it but scoffed at me when I said that my periods were more painful.
• 1997-2000: still putting up with painful periods, taking huge amounts of paracetamol/NSAIDs to cope.
• 1999 (26): began using Retin-A cream by a skin ‘specialist’ to treat adult acne – looking back, this explained the onset of many mental health issues, including paranoia and depression. However, because I was also so tired all the time due to my ‘undiagnosed’ condition, I put it all down to this – & so did my Dr who prescribed antidepressants.
• 2001 (28): I recall having pain & a severe burning/stinging sensation near my rib cage around my liver area, it lasted around a month from memory, I also took paracetamol/NSAIDs to cope – at the time I wondered if it was something like shingles because I had had chicken pox late in life at age 18…
• 2003 (30): I recall a friend saying that my eyes looked yellow; still having mental health issues.
• 2006 (33): visited a Dr because I was experiencing pain around my liver area & I wondered if I was suffering from something like a hernia as I felt a bulging sensation one day. Ultrasound scan revealed nothing, no diagnosis. In the same year, I saw an optometrist as I could no longer focus as well when reading. He not only prescribed glasses but diagnosed keratoconus, where the cornea thins and bulges outwards! I was still using Retin A occasionally, minimal spot application. I was also having spates of red swollen lips with fissures.
• 2006: stopped using Retin A – because the tube ran out…
• 2009 (36): finally found a Dr who took my period pain seriously – diagnosed with Endometriosis – had a hysterectomy.
• 2010-2013: life/health better – no monthly pain, started a full-time job (up until now, I did not work outside the home, and although I never felt that my life was unfulfilled by not having a job, I could not have held down a job anyway); during 2010-2013 I took fewer paracetamol/NSAIDs, went off antidepressants.
• 2014 (41): started to feel unwell, lots of brain fog, couldn’t focus, having pain issues around my mid region again, and lots of sciatic pain on right side (forgot mention that I had always suffered from this, but it was getting worse)
• 2015 (42): overall health getting worse – now suffering an increase in intestinal issues (think of my scan to rule out appendicitis 20 years earlier, sigh!) I also started suffering rolling stints of colds/flus every 2-3 months, was back to taking paracetamol/NSAIDs regularly, plus antihistamines and the strongest OTC flu meds to manage symptoms.
• 2015: mid-year, I learned about leaky gut which matched my symptoms completely. I overhauled my diet – cut out ALL high processed foods, as well as bread & rice, ate pasta occasionally. This worked wonders and I thought that I had found the answer – lots of sweet potato & spinach is fine, right? Lol…
• 2016 (43): January, things started taking a turn again.
• 2016 (43): February, I finally went to my Dr as I was so unwell & upset by this stage. Symptoms were affecting different areas of my body, it was clear that he thought I was suffering from anxiety & depression, also laughed at the idea there was such a thing as leaky gut, and only recommended antidepressants. I did my best to explain the severe nature of all my symptoms and we made a deal: I take antidepressants, and he start sending me to specialists, a cardiologist (for my extremely low heart rate) and gastroenterologist (I was convinced by my symptoms I had colon cancer). The antidepressants lasted a month until I remembered that the medication made me ‘not care’ about actual things that were clearly wrong with me and thereby also the reasons I was seeking help! I also began wondering if I could work past the age of 50.
• 2016: March, Cardiologist – no anomalies, apparently.
• 2016: April, Gastroenterologist – had a colonoscopy, was told that I had wasted his time and recommended Metamucil for my symptoms; the best (& worst!) thing to come out of this procedure was the effect that the preparation to have a colonoscopy had on my intestines. If you’re not familiar with these procedures, you eat a very restricted diet & drink a solution leading up to the procedure to ensure that your intestines/colon is completely clear. In the days after, I went straight back to eating my 2015 diet – within 2 days I had extreme pain on the right-side of my gut area that rivalled my years of period pain. I had clearly demonstrated at least to myself that my symptoms were related to food &/or intestinal damage. The pain was so bad that I couldn’t move or talk for about 12 hours. I stopped eating. The next day I went back to my Dr, at least he could see that I was suffering, I likened the pain to having been in a car accident. I couldn’t sit properly or have him touch my gut area. This time he thought outside the box and sent me for an ultrasound on my ovaries and the gas-lighting ceased. Residual pain from inflammation lasted several days, so I waited a week, but there were no clear results, so I was sent to a Gynaecologist.
• 2016: May, Gynaecologist (not the same Dr who removed my uterus) took one look at me and said that I was likely suffering from endometriosis on my ovaries too.
• 2016: July, laparoscopic surgery to investigate my organs and a high likelihood of ovaries being removed depending on findings - ovaries riddled with endometriosis, particularly my right ovary that had so much scarring it was ‘sticking’ to my intestines. Not only this, but I also had endometriosis on my bowel. Ovaries removed and active endo treated on my bowel, not much could be done about the previous 30 YEARS OF SCARRING that had developed & that was also the cause of my embarrassing pain all those years ago; no ovaries, so began regular estradiol pellets (BHRT) inserted under the skin, which I still have inserted today.
• 2018 (45): July, 2 years later, back in for further laparoscopic surgery because pain and symptoms returning – yep, endometriosis was back on my bowel. Dr said I was a severe case & I’d likely be back every two years for treatment. In this time, I had removed all remaining wheat from my diet, anything that might cause constipation, but I was still living in the vege/fruit paradigm – after all, they are such a lovely red & yellow colour too!
• 2020 (47): Beginning of year, yep, symptoms returning. Seriously considered how to retire on disability and did not look forward to undergoing further surgery nor a general anaesthetic and couldn’t afford it financially either. One of the effects of this condition meant that I couldn’t sit for long periods of time as this would ‘crush’ my intestines, causing sticking, inflammation & pain. Pandemic hit, forced to WFH during our 1^st lockdown, and I soon wanted NOTHING to do with hospitals anyway. Continued working but no surgery.
• 2021 (48): September, lockdown 2.0 – my son, God bless him, discovered carnivore! He cured his acute dermatitis, and so after this miracle, I tried the diet. Within 2 months, I could sit for much longer periods of time, brain fog lifted, and my intestines had never felt better! I could see a future that included working many more years, could pay my mortgage, and no needs for further surgery. I have not taken a single paracetamol or NSAID since!!!
• 2022 (49): Q – can you Carnivore too hard? A – Yes. Because Carnivore had worked a miracle for my intestinal issues, I also fell for some nonsense… began eating liver &/or taking liver supplements – because it’s all just from an animal, right? By the end of the year, I wondered why I was beginning to feel unwell after having made such enormous health gains… hair falling out, dry skin, some intestinal issues, eyes yellow, eyesight terrible, weird pressure feeling in my skull, cognition reduced, brain fog, memory failure, neuropathy, my hips would spasm/cramp if I leaned a certain way. I also do intermittent fasting (IF) and looking back I wonder if this was somehow protective.
• 2023 (50): still consuming liver, as was my son, until he had an acute reaction after taking cod liver oil on top of our liver consumption (my own symptoms were getting worse). We started investigating and discovered Hypervitaminosis A and Grant’s information. We obviously cut out all supplements, liver, as well as dairy for a few months. I thought that this was enough and added back dairy later in the year.
• 2024 (51): still not feeling as great as when I had first started carnivore, however my dairy consumption was back & out of control; I was eating a large amount of butter with my dinner to get my ‘fat’ ratio in – I would always feel groggy or fall asleep afterwards but just put this down to my body’s metabolism. Revisited Grant’s information in February, switched out butter for tallow, cut out other dairy & eggs. Meat only – symptoms became worse, particularly hair loss/brittleness, mental clarity, I assume due to Vit-A leaving my body. Did this for quite a while, but I do prefer cream in my coffee and felt like some eggs.
• 2025 (52): again, I felt that my vitamin A consumption had increased a too much again, but not as much as 2024. Start of March, I cut out eggs & dairy & coffee. Late April, I added back black coffee with MCT oil. In the past two weeks, I’ve eaten about 5-10 grams of butter a day. Otherwise, I am meat only, high fat ratio of tallow – with the following qualifications: I’m eating about 1/8 cup of raisins every other day to see if this helps with absorbing & expelling Vit-A & other toxins. I know that I caused further damage to my intestines in 2022/2023 on top of what I already suffered. My motility is extremely slow, and I want to avoid reabsorption of bile & Vit-A as much as I can. I can also feel when my gall bladder/liver is ‘doing things’. It wakes me up between 3-5 am most nights. I’ve also taken or take a few supplements:
• Supplement 1: throughout the whole Vit-A consumption debacle, I had also been taking iodine! Some symptoms do certainly overlap, and I do feel that my thyroid took a hit because of the combination. I stopped it in December 2023 and my thyroid feels better today, and my energy is slowly returning.
• Supplement 2: I’ve also gone through bouts of oxalate dumping after taking biotin in May 2024 – my feet were the worst, very painful even for me, and my threshold is high! This vitamin really helped my intestines, even though I started taking it to improve my hair & skin. I then stopped it for a while over Christmas but have recently added it back in and I offset any dumping with powdered cacao.
• Supplement 3: I’m now taking Taurine to help with bile production & toxin release. I think that it is working well for me.
• Supplements 4&5: Gelatine & Collagen for gut health, homemade jelly using the raisins as flavouring & for motility.
• Today (52): current health – hair growing back in, no longer thinning or brittle, colour returning; eyesight much better, I no longer use magnifying glasses for detailed drawing; mental clarity has greatly improved, I’m hoping it continues and would like further memory improvements – but I think it’s mainly that I’ve lost 2-3 years recently of my life…; I no longer fall asleep after eating my one meal a day, but my overall sleep quality is poor; energy not always great, but I’ve started walking briskly for 20 mins in the morning since taking taurine. I can feel my gall bladder/liver ‘doing something’ when I exercise; my skin is not great, and my eyes are a bit yellow still. So overall, it’s good days & bad, the bad I put down to Vit-A detox and I tell myself that it’s worth it. I’ll know when I’m somewhat recovered when someone says, “you look well today”.
• I will never do high amounts of dairy & eggs again, but in a couple of years, I might add these foods back on a semi-regular basis.

I wrote the above timeline out a couple of weeks ago before posting to the forum, and today I've added:

• Endometriosis: I am not saying that Vitamin A caused this, but the condition led to my overuse of NSAIDs putting stress on my liver, and intestinal scarring & leaky gut that allowed too many toxins to readily escape into my system.
• Leaky gut issues: I believe that much of this was caused by Vit-A toxicity because I recall trying to explain irregular symptoms to my Dr – I likened these to having strep throat symptoms in my gut, like a burning sensation when swallowing. I believe now that bile laden with Vit-A, & Vit-A foods, were essentially burning their way through my intestines (probably oxalates too). And scarring from endo just didn’t help…
• Liver pain & stinging skin sensation: I put this down to Retin-A cream tipping my Vit-A tolerance over the edge!
• Eyesight: I put this down to Retin-A cream tipping my Vit-A tolerance over the edge and consuming liver. At the start of 2022, I felt that my eyesight improved immensely when starting carnivore, but it is now worse, and I hope that it recovers. Whites of eyes not fully white, and I’m always dark under the eyes.
• Skin & hair: right now (over the past week) it is very dry again and I’m experiencing hair loss again – if it continues, I might add in some butter to stem Vit-A release, or stop Taurine for a while, as I believe that I am releasing Vit-A due to Taurine.
• Joints & bone pain: has almost fully reversed. I rarely suffer hip pain anymore & certainly don’t require pain relief even if I do. Since starting Taurine, I’ve been able to go for walks each morning before work.

I commend anyone who has made it this far to read my full story. And questions, comments, insights, please let me know 🙂

 

Quote from lil chick on May 16, 2025, 6:04 am

Wow, thanks for typing all of this in.   We had another participant here with endo, I wonder if it is a VA problem that hasn't made it to the usual lists.    I also had a lot of period pain.   Lots of other things the same for me, the constantly chapped lips, for instance.    Sounds so smart to be doing the gelatin.    I believe in that, it has helped people I know.    Broth is the home made version of this.   

At the end of your writeup I got the feeling like you don't know what exactly caused what, and that is something that we all wonder.    But thankfully we do know now that vitamin A can rise to levels of toxicity in the body.   All toxins do matter, and that can't be denied.   It isn't the only toxin out there.   But the first step is recognizing them!

Quote from lil chick on May 16, 2025, 6:07 am

@naomi

https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/endometriosis-retinol-connection/

Quote from lil chick on May 16, 2025, 6:10 am

I have wondered if urushiol sensitivity is more common in people with vitamin A toxicity.

Quote from Nellie on May 16, 2025, 11:49 pm

@lil-chick

thanks for the Endometriosis Retinol connection link - I'm still finding my way around the forum - and I would totally not be surprised if there is a strong link/cause from Vit-A toxicity (sadly...)

edit: genetics could play a part, my mother suffered dreadfully too but went undiagnosed between the 60s-80s & ultimately had a hysterectomy. My daughter was diagnosed in 2020, her early 20s, and eats a high-elimination diet to manage her symptoms. She no longer requires her prescribed nerve pain medication, rarely takes ibuprofen, and can go to work. I'm so thankful that she was diagnosed early.

It is certainly an inflammatory disease, so I am totally onboard with it actually being caused by Vit-A toxicity.

I read an interesting passage a couple of years ago about inter-generational disease being passed on through degradation of ovaries with each generation (or something to that effect) - I will try to locate the book & passage again for the forum. The book wasn't about Vit-A, but I'm now wondering if it is all linked and that the 'scientists' just weren't casting their nets wide enough as to the actual cause...

 

Quote from Nellie on July 4, 2025, 5:05 pm

On June 10, I unintentionally experienced my first liver/gall bladder flush.

Here’s how I believe it happened… first a quick recap - I follow a 97% carnivore WOE, do OMAD, suffer very slow motility due to a chronic condition. In May, started taking taurine (4 gm – first time using this supplement) & biotin (4000 mcg – which I’ve done in the past).

Over June 8 & 9, I massively increased fat and decreased protein due to slow motility becoming an issue. Still doing OMAD for protein but eating bite size chunks of fat throughout both days, which I don’t normally do. Fat consisted of coconut oil, coconut butter, butter, tallow, either cold/hard, and more coconut oil mixed into coffees. At the end of both days, I ate my OMAD consisting of much less protein than usual and fat.

In the early hours of June 10, I woke feeling a tightness around my liver & gall bladder. When I rose a few hours later I noticed that my eyes were very yellow & thought great, all I’ve done is flood myself with VA toxins. I still made a coffee with lots of fat and within 30 minutes was finally able to go to the bathroom and felt better. Another 30 minutes later, I felt like I needed to go to the bathroom again – which never ever happens. For 5-10 minutes I started feeling heat in my lower intestines as though I’d eaten a hot curry, so I listened to my body. After several painful minutes, I went through 4 bouts of what felt like hot liquid passing through my intestines. There were so many pebble-sized white/yellow gall stones that I was in shock; couldn’t count them all even if I wanted to.

I resumed my regular protein intake but continued with higher fat throughout the day wondering if I would be able to release more stones…

3 weeks later, July 1, believing no more stones would come, I reduced my protein again for a couple of days, increased taurine, & cut out biotin. Success again (small pebbles) and again the next day (large grains of sand)

I’m going to continue reducing my protein every now and then, which seems to be working for me, to see if I can encourage release of more gall sludge & stones.

Am I seeing benefits / feeling better?

Over the past 30 days my skin has been pretty dry (but it’s also the middle of a very cold winter where I am), my eyesight hasn’t improved any, but it’s also not any worse, however I do believe that they are much whiter/brighter on some days for the first time in years, my hair is shedding (main reason why I cut out biotin; I am also oxalate dumping and wanted to reduce any undue stress in favour of releasing gall stones/sludge). I’m noticing much less pain/numbness in my hip & leg, even after sitting all day at work, and no longer fear ‘cramping’ when I bend forward & reach down for something (this was becoming quite concerning as I’m not overweight and only 52).

I will see what the next few weeks brings…

Quote from Jiří on July 5, 2025, 12:11 am

@naomi

Great detailed health/diet history that is what everyone should do if he wants help. My opinion is that avoiding vit A is great for you when I look at your symptoms, but you completely missed potential copper disregulation.. "extremely painful & heavy periods " is the first a the most classic sign of estrogen dominance + when you take birth control pills you just make it worse and all the time you have estrogen dominance you are retaining more and more copper in your body.. This copper is estrogenic and feeds that estrogen dominance so your in this vicious circle and it doesn't work like you stop the pills and your copper toxicity disappears.. At that point your body runs low in key cofactors to keep copper metabolism running properly. Endometriosis is also classic issue with estrogen dominance, copper toxicity low iodine and other micronutrients like zinc. I am surprised that you still have your gallbladder? Also you didn't mention any mental issues? Btw all this happens to females even if they don't eat any liver and they just take birth control pills or are simply very zinc, iodine,selenium deficient co they can't keep detoxing all that excess of estrogen.. But you eating liver it is not just high in vit A. It is also food by far the highest in copper... I said that I am surprised that you still have your gallbladder, because severe estrogen dominance stops bile production and flow and so majority of females in your shoes develop gallstones/sludge pretty fast and end up with gallbladder removal.. Have you  ever have done any thyroid blood testing? Do you have symptoms of hypothyroidsm? I would be also very surprised that you didn't have any. Pls look at this website and if anything they talk about is familiar with your case.. https://www.coppertoxic.com/

Avoiding vit A make sense looking at your symptoms, but not looking at copper as well specifically in your case is missing a boat by a mile.. I would highy recommend finding practitioner, doing hair tissue mineral analysis and start to fixing the root cause of your issues. Carnivore without fiber is long term disaster. Your bile is just reabsorbing and so you can't eliminate all that copper and other toxins properly. Not to mention high fat, high protein no fiber is bad news for intestine in long term as well..

Btw do you have photo of those stones? I will do liver flush tomorrow. Hopefully I will have something to make photo of. 🙂

Quote from Nellie on July 12, 2025, 8:06 pm

@jiri

Thanks for your comment and insights. Sorry, no photos...

I briefly touched on mental issues in my history for which I was given anti-depressants to complement medical gaslighting (I haven't taken them for nearly 10 years). Over the past few weeks, and since what I assume to be a lot of V-A detoxing / gall bladder flushing, I have noticed huge gains in concentration and short term memory - my memory suffered GREATLY in 2022-2023 during my high VA intake & initial low V-A diet - still waiting for eyesight gains...

I continue to have regular success flushing gall stones the size of large grains of sand/small pebbles on an almost daily basis. I'm reducing taurine & fat intake for a few days to give my system a break...

Unfortunately, I had a hysterectomy 15 years ago, so it's too late know how well a clean diet & reduction in V-A would directly have assisted endometriosis/painful periods/heavy bleeding. But I know that my gut inflammation is lower, and hope that my leaky gut is healing for absorption of vitamins & minerals. I understand why you mention fibre, but due to my intestinal scarring, I can only eat a VERY small amount, hence only the dozen raisins each day. If I eat a lot of fibre, then my motility is even worse & I feel very unwell when the toxins start to leach into my stomach cavity... 

I was only 12 years old when my endometriosis/painful periods/heavy bleeding started. So I believe it is difficult to blame diet & toxins as the main culprit - I certainly didn't eat liver in those first 12 years (the stupid idea to eat liver began in 2022, which tipped my V-A toxicity levels over the top). I believe my chronic condition can be put down down to all the medical interventions that we are bombarded with both directly & indirectly. By this I mean multi-generational medical interventions given to men & women that affect development of ova & sperm in our parents, and then further medical interventions given to us once we're are born which affect our genes & organ development, particularly our sexual organs; and the cycle continues. Endometriosis/painful periods/heavy bleeding at such a young age seems to fit this; then add epigenetics, poor diets, environmental chemicals, deliberate disinformation on all topics for profit, medical malpractice through wilful ignorance, plus our appeal to authority complex as a society, to the mix and it just becomes the perfect storm..

V-A is not the only toxin destroying us, but I agree that it's one that dominates the top of the list...

Quote from Jiří on July 13, 2025, 3:16 am

@naomi "I was only 12 years old when my endometriosis/painful periods/heavy bleeding started. So I believe it is difficult to blame diet & toxins as the main culprit "

Like I said this is all due to high esrogen.. Females mature sooner and sooner because people are getting more estrogen dominant. There is more and more chemicals in our environment that mimic estrogen. But I think it is mainly due to mineral imbalances. Today most people run low on zinc, selenium, iodine, magnesium and are overloaded with iron, copper and heavy metals like mercury, lead, arsenic and they lower those low minerals even more.. Once female has IUD or starts to take birth control pills it just increases this estrogen dominance/copper toxicity/zinc,iodine deficiency and if that person don't know any of this it is impossible to fix.. Especially if that female doesn't even eat sources of iodine, zinc like red meat, sea food which most of them don't. They eat high copper diet so plant based nuts, seeds, chocolate, soy etc.. It is perfect scenario to make it so much worse.. That's why I recommend hair tissue mineral analysis and balancing the body that way..