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Possible concern with Lecithin mobilizing retinol out from the RBP
Quote from
ggenereux on July 6, 2020, 8:43 am
Lecithin:Retinol Acyltransferase Is Critical for Cellular Uptake of Vitamin A from Serum Retinol-binding Protein*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3397848/
They claim it to be critical, but that depends on one's perspective.
Does anyone have experience with lecithin supplementation?
Lecithin:Retinol Acyltransferase Is Critical for Cellular Uptake of Vitamin A from Serum Retinol-binding Protein*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3397848/
They claim it to be critical, but that depends on one's perspective.
Does anyone have experience with lecithin supplementation?
Joel has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on July 6, 2020, 8:55 am
@ggenereux2014 I was taking sunflower lecithin, but hard to tell if I had more symptoms of vit A toxicity at that time..
@ggenereux2014 I was taking sunflower lecithin, but hard to tell if I had more symptoms of vit A toxicity at that time..
Quote from
Rachel on July 6, 2020, 8:57 am
My husband likes to take lecithin. He suffers cramps in his calves at night and the lecithin seems to stop this from happening. He is not following a low VA approach.
My husband likes to take lecithin. He suffers cramps in his calves at night and the lecithin seems to stop this from happening. He is not following a low VA approach.
Quote from
dan on July 7, 2020, 1:25 pm
Yes I've supplemented 5 grams/day of NOW Foods sunflower lecithin about every day from January 2020 to June 2020 in case I had a choline deficiency.
Unfortunately I can't say for sure whether it helped or hurt me. There was no immediate positive or negative effect, at least.
However I've stopped supplementing it, because I suspect it may have contributed to my unexpected setbacks during that time period.
Yes I've supplemented 5 grams/day of NOW Foods sunflower lecithin about every day from January 2020 to June 2020 in case I had a choline deficiency.
Unfortunately I can't say for sure whether it helped or hurt me. There was no immediate positive or negative effect, at least.
However I've stopped supplementing it, because I suspect it may have contributed to my unexpected setbacks during that time period.
Quote from
ggenereux on July 7, 2020, 1:32 pm
Thanks for the responses.
Thanks for the responses.
Quote from
Joel on July 8, 2020, 4:08 am
I suplemmented BodyBio's phosphatatidycholine/lecithin liquid for 6 weeks. During this time, my eyes were even drier at night. Maybe I will test it again, to find out if it really was because of it.
Only I can not interpret it...Drier eyes - more vitamin A symptoms means that it is only bad for detoxification, or could it be a worsening and it indicates an acceleration of detoxification, according to the motto: more vitamin A out of the liver therefore more/stronger symptoms?!
I suplemmented BodyBio's phosphatatidycholine/lecithin liquid for 6 weeks. During this time, my eyes were even drier at night. Maybe I will test it again, to find out if it really was because of it.
Only I can not interpret it...Drier eyes - more vitamin A symptoms means that it is only bad for detoxification, or could it be a worsening and it indicates an acceleration of detoxification, according to the motto: more vitamin A out of the liver therefore more/stronger symptoms?!
Quote from
ggenereux on July 8, 2020, 5:32 am
Hi @joel,
My interpretation of that paper is that lecithin is drawing retinol out from the RBP. So, it’s not really accelerating the detox from the liver. Rather it’s going to cause more unbound retinol to be freed into circulation, and that would significantly increase the toxicity of it.
I think this might partially explain why some people have negative reactions to chocolate.
Thanks.
Hi @joel,
My interpretation of that paper is that lecithin is drawing retinol out from the RBP. So, it’s not really accelerating the detox from the liver. Rather it’s going to cause more unbound retinol to be freed into circulation, and that would significantly increase the toxicity of it.
I think this might partially explain why some people have negative reactions to chocolate.
Thanks.
Ourania and Joel have reacted to this post.
Quote from
tim on July 8, 2020, 5:39 am
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5127123/
"TMAO is formed from trimethylamine (TMA), which is generated by the action of gut microbiota from dietary choline and phosphatidylcholine (lecithin) [8,9]."
"Plasma level of TMAO is determined by a number of factors including diet, gut microbial flora and liver flavin monooxygenase activity. In humans, a positive correlation between elevated plasma levels of TMAO and an increased risk for major adverse cardiovascular events and death is reported. The atherogenic effect of TMAO is attributed to alterations in cholesterol and bile acid metabolism, activation of inflammatory pathways and promotion foam cell formation. TMAO levels increase with decreasing levels of kidney function and is associated with mortality in patients with chronic kidney disease."
I took lecithin for a while and didn't notice any benefit. I then read about TMAO and stopped taking it immediately.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5127123/
"TMAO is formed from trimethylamine (TMA), which is generated by the action of gut microbiota from dietary choline and phosphatidylcholine (lecithin) [8,9]."
"Plasma level of TMAO is determined by a number of factors including diet, gut microbial flora and liver flavin monooxygenase activity. In humans, a positive correlation between elevated plasma levels of TMAO and an increased risk for major adverse cardiovascular events and death is reported. The atherogenic effect of TMAO is attributed to alterations in cholesterol and bile acid metabolism, activation of inflammatory pathways and promotion foam cell formation. TMAO levels increase with decreasing levels of kidney function and is associated with mortality in patients with chronic kidney disease."
I took lecithin for a while and didn't notice any benefit. I then read about TMAO and stopped taking it immediately.
ggenereux has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Joel on July 9, 2020, 1:21 am
But normal choline should be fine, right? The negative effect is based on the phosphate compound with choline, which then makes it to lecithin?!
I found these studie to vitamin A and Lecithin, too.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/095528639500126K
-"Intraduodenal phosphatidylcholine infusion restores the lymphatic absorption of vitamin A and oleic acid in zinc-deficient rats"
But normal choline should be fine, right? The negative effect is based on the phosphate compound with choline, which then makes it to lecithin?!
I found these studie to vitamin A and Lecithin, too.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/095528639500126K
-"Intraduodenal phosphatidylcholine infusion restores the lymphatic absorption of vitamin A and oleic acid in zinc-deficient rats"
Quote from
Andrew B on November 17, 2022, 7:58 am
The focus here is one enzyme. There may be two or even three ways to look at what it's doing. In vitamin A deficiency world they tend to assume it's helping give the body Vitamin A as we know whereas it might be protecting us from it. There are numerous other uses of lecithin and phosphatidylcholine in the body. Lecithin is found in the amniotic fluid along with sphingomyelin. Phosphatidycholine is found in the bile salts enabling safe transfer of toxins out the body. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/5016305/
Phosphatidycholine is protective in preventing further progression of liver disease. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3103094/
Sphingomyelin high in eggs may also enhance our protection. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10828083/
The focus on lecithin retinol acyltransferase in isolation has been a huge mistake in vitamin A toxicity when the accepted science is that lecithin, phospholipids, phosphotidylcholine in particular and choline are of great benefit in restoring fatty liver to full health. And @ggenereux2014 probably got sufficient choline from beans and beef to recover but more might have been helpful particularly in the first difficult year.
The focus here is one enzyme. There may be two or even three ways to look at what it's doing. In vitamin A deficiency world they tend to assume it's helping give the body Vitamin A as we know whereas it might be protecting us from it. There are numerous other uses of lecithin and phosphatidylcholine in the body. Lecithin is found in the amniotic fluid along with sphingomyelin. Phosphatidycholine is found in the bile salts enabling safe transfer of toxins out the body. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/5016305/
Phosphatidycholine is protective in preventing further progression of liver disease. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3103094/
Sphingomyelin high in eggs may also enhance our protection. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10828083/
The focus on lecithin retinol acyltransferase in isolation has been a huge mistake in vitamin A toxicity when the accepted science is that lecithin, phospholipids, phosphotidylcholine in particular and choline are of great benefit in restoring fatty liver to full health. And @ggenereux2014 probably got sufficient choline from beans and beef to recover but more might have been helpful particularly in the first difficult year.
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