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Vegetable oils and vitamin A
I was reading in Poisoning for Profits about how the diets fed to rats to try to prove vitamin A deficiency included lard -- which, by the process of rendering (heat treatment), likely converted vitamin A to retinoic acid. The retinoic acid would be the hidden source of vitamin A that poisoned the rats in ~10 weeks. All of this makes sense to me.
I have one question related to the hidden retinoic acid; but I need to share a bit of my background first. Earlier this year (2023) was the only time in my life that I lost significant weight without really trying. I did two things at once:
- I stopped eating seed oils (corn, canola, cottonseed, soy, sunflower, safflower, rice bran, grape seed) as much as possible. (For details on why I did that, see Dr. Cate Shanahan's lecture here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnZAzjsnJ5U)
- And, I added saturated fats back into my diet using butter, full-fat plain yogurt, eggs, and high quality cheeses.
I don’t know how much weight I lost; but I know I lost at least 1 belt notch and the weight mostly came from the hard-to-lose areas (belly, under the chin, etc.).
Now, the typical explanation for why those changes would have worked is that the vegetable oils are high in linoleic acid, which breaks down into toxins in the body and cause the fat storage processes to go awry. So, by avoiding the seed oils, I was allowing my fat storage processes to start working correctly again, particularly with the addition of saturated fats. That explanation may be correct.
However, after reading about the lard having "hidden" retinoic acid, a thought occurred to me. Take sunflower oil as an example. Sunflower seeds contain vitamin A (about 50 IU per 100 grams). But, sunflower oil supposedly has zero IU of vitamin A per tablespoon. How is that possible? Well, the process of making sunflower oil involves high heat and a lot of industrial processing (including refining/bleaching/deodorizing with solvents like hexane, which I believe is derived from gasoline). Could it be that the sunflower oil actually has a lot of retinoic acid in it but is not labeled as such? If so, it's probably quite a lot, given how many sunflower seeds are concentrated into making small amounts of the oil.
If that's true, then considering how widely vegetable oil is used in our food supplies, there could be a lot of "hidden" vitamin A out there.
I agree even though I cant say if the numbers are right. While I havent been useing Pufa oils for 12 years or so I still have changed parts of my reasons for avoiding it. I assume that both the pufa and the A contributes but also I think a lot of the breakdown products from the process adds to it.
Hi @phil,
Yes, the seed oils can be extremely bad. Not only do they often contain high amounts of vA ( usually in the form of the carotenoids), but since it is pre-encapsulated in the oil it's much more readily absorbed.
Label reading on breads over the past 3 years it seems that more and more are using canola oil. Making my own bread is looking like the only option, but I am not good at baking bread. 🙁
Quote from Charity on August 11, 2023, 6:52 pmLabel reading on breads over the past 3 years it seems that more and more are using canola oil. Making my own bread is looking like the only option, but I am not good at baking bread.
Tried a bread making machine? Did alright for me. You can even get them without teflon these days. The new non-teflon non-stick compound might even be made out of something that won't give you cancer!
Quote from Charity on August 11, 2023, 6:52 pmLabel reading on breads over the past 3 years it seems that more and more are using canola oil. Making my own bread is looking like the only option, but I am not good at baking bread. 🙁
Yes, sadly, it seems that the use of vegetable oils is much more widespread than it should be.
For bread, have you ever considered making sourdough? My daughter has taken an interest in making sourdough bread and it's fairly simple and quite delicious. She's even made things like sourdough tortillas, sourdough crackers, and sourdough pretzels. She recommends this book for beginners: https://books.google.com/books?id=-qFEDgAAQBAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=sourdough+bread+emily&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Needless caution. Vitamin A degrades when exposed to light, so it must be eliminated during the vegetable oil production process.
This was a good thought though. Has anyone actually measured vA in common vegetable oils?
Quote from Ilyas on August 13, 2023, 3:20 pmNeedless caution. Vitamin A degrades when exposed to light, so it must be eliminated during the vegetable oil production process.
This was a good thought though. Has anyone actually measured vA in common vegetable oils?
Needed caution though. Its been measured up and down and while it might be higher in some and not all being detected as this is just simple beta c. here you go for sunflower oil:
Outside of the upregulation of VitA absorption (and the VitA present in the oil), veggie oil will undoubtedly lower NAD+ in a dose dependent manor.
Fire in a Bottle does a pretty good illustration of it here in his recent "How to make a mammal fat" video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzWsRGYupM
Essentially, it breaks down into forms of linoleic or oleic acids that will put blocks in glycation (disabling pyruvate dehydrogenase) which, in turn, reduces the NAD+ pool thru a cascade. Presumably this is to help the animal fatten up for winter. And, that's something I used to think only happened with Fructose.
And, NAD+ is needed to detox Vit A.