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Why low fat if fat is supposed to push VA out?
I'm reading Grant's book "Poisoning for Profits" and at around pages 36, 37 (and prior I think) he mentions how a doctor was fixing kids' eye problems which were probably caused by VA toxicity by prescribing a higher fat (butter) intake. And the kids recovered.
Grant explains is this way that the higher fat in the diet was emulsifying the VA and flushing it out of the system. From what I understand a similar explanation is given for why fishermen were getting better eye health by ingesting cod liver oil. So, if fats/oils can do this - shouldn't we eat more fat on the low VA diet, not less?
@ggenereux2014 - Would love to hear your thoughts on this ...
Isnt butter full of vitamin A?
Hi @paola,
Yes, I think getting an adequate amount of fat in the diet is important. I also do believe that just lubricating dry eyes with an oil could have likely resolved night blindness, and it probably had nothing to do with vitamin A content of the oil.
But, I don't have a good feel for what an adequate amount of fat is for us. The bigger problem is finding a safe fat with a low vitamin A content. I know people have tried coconut oil, and the results have been mixed. I felt I did OK with olive oil, but have pretty much stopped using it altogether.
Modern day butter is probably too high in vitamin A content, at least so for most mass produced butters in North America.
Sorry, I don't have any good recommendations.
I usually feel great for a few hours after I have eaten much bitter chocolate.
Here is also thread about it:
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/esterification-pufa-vs-sfa/
@ggenereux2014 I was thinking about this subject after rereading the same pages in the book and was also wondering how you feel about the fat intake these days. I have myself drifted to a very low fat intake but its not a very concious process, just not feeling good on the fats so looming around max 10% of calories from fat these days (naturally occuring beef fat). Do you still feel that higher fat could be benficial?? Is there a specific reason why you, if so, have eliminated mostly the olive oil?. I'd love to hear anybody elses experiences on this too.
Hi @henrik,
I stopped taking olive oil because of a concern that I was still getting too many carotenoids in my diet. My overall reduction in fat and olive oil intake was not really from a health concern, but rather it didn’t fit with my long-term goal of taking in virtually no vA. That overarching goal is to prove a scientific point that a human can live just fine on an extremely low vA diet for 10+ years. So, my motivation is probably different than that of most people here.
Since bison is very low in fat I’ve just drifted to a low fat diet. Once again, that’s not for health reasons, that's just the way it’s turned out. Like what you’ve described.
Actually, I think a higher fat diet might be more beneficial. I think the extra fat would emulsive vA that’s accumulated in the liver and elsewhere, and help with it getting safely expelled with bile.
When I eat beef I do not avoid the fat. I don’t have a recommendation on a safer fat.
@henrik I went too low fat on my VA detox diet and suffered for it. I was around 12% of my calories from fat, and that didn’t seem to be enough for me, based on the anti-anxiety benefits that adding in refined coconut oil gave me. Some on this forum are sensitive to coconut oil; there doesn’t seem to be a strong consensus as to why. Given that I am sensitive to lutein and all forms of VA, I was surprised to learn that coconut oil does not give me any known problems. It might be worth trying out if you haven’t yet and decide to give more fat a shot.
I would just like to put my thoughts in here.
I did a calc, and I estimate Grant’s fat intake to be 20% of total calories, if you add in olive oil, this can go up to 30%. Replace bison with beef on the odd occasion, and this can shoot right up to 40%. To me this is not low, this is moderate and is appropriate for a male.
Grant can correct me if I’m wrong, but ground bison is actually around 10% fat- maybe more. This isn’t a low fat food by any means.
In my personal opinion low fat is no good and will definitely cause you problems down the line, especially for the younger folk and women.
I’ve formed this opinion from studies that I have read and my own experience with low fat.
I am currently forced to do a very low fat diet (less than 10%, maybe even 5%) because of a malfunctioning gallbladder where I‘m unable to digest fat leading to gastritis, and the health effects have been disastrous as a result.
Do not go low fat, it will not help your detox, if anything it will slow it down while giving you other health problems.
@margo . Hi thanks for chiming in. I don't have any particular problems digesting fat, It's more like with Grant it just happened accidently due to lowering A more and more. I used to eat about a spoonfull of butter everyday for frying my meat and sometimes a pinch on my potatoes but decided to see how it would go if I didnt. I only use it now for rubbing my cast iron after washing it. I don't tolerate coconut oil too well. I don't react violently to it but it does seem to increase inflamation in my body making me have unhealthy inflamation markers on blood samples. It's not that it's fat per se, it must be some property of coconut oil causing it. So far I've been vaguely accepting Smiths theory that it's an aggrevator but I don't know. If I eat other fats I don't get the same reaction even though I dont do well with eating lots of fat. I think my ability (and need?) for fat has lowered though since starting low A. I don't really notice any problems from having 10% only fat, but since it's quite low I was curious about the thoughts on the subject and what might be the problems caused by it. I could add that what kind of coconut oil makes a huge difference and I think at least some of the problems people are having with it is caused by using less ideal brands. I only use one brand thats both organic and refined as the non-refined irritate a lot of people due to the different plant residues. So far the only noteworthy change in my body from removing butter is higher bile-dumping. Not horribly but noticeably. So since I notice no bad effects from avoiding butter, and no real benefits from adding fats I havent reintroduced it.
@tommy : Hi thanks to you too - I dont know how much fat is in bison so for me that is an unknown and I leave that to @ggenereux2014 to answer. Personally I mostly eat beef and choose mostly lean cuts as I feel better on them. Meaning they are sold as 5% fat. Here the meat is classified in different fat-percentages when packaged and you can choose between 5%, 10%, 15% and higher fats. I dont particularty avoid it though but just feel good on it and its more appetizing.
I'm sorry to hear about the gastritis. But I didnt really undrestand is it the gastritis that has caused lots of disastrous health effects or the going lower on fat?? I'm not very biased in one way or the other about what is the "right" amount of fat just trying to figure out whats happening. In anthropological studies of different populations the fat intake varies from 70% to about 10% fat intake averagely among hunters and all of them seem to do ok. Not sure when you go down in single didgits if it affects negatively, but I'm not aware of any studies showing problems from low-fat though. There is even some old studies where people have been eating a 0% fat diets for years in lab setting without any measurable problems sthough I personally dont recomend that. Just like with Kemplers Rice diet; Maybe not optimal but still doable. But I'm just trying to clearify why Im sceptical not trying to shut down the argument or dissmiss your point. Personally I've only experienced problems if Im eating the wrong types of fats.