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A possible gluten Connection
About 67 people on our survey reported including bread (or other gluten containing) products in their diets. Of these responses, 44 people (~65%) reported having experienced the detox setback. Specifically, they replied with a 2,3,4, or 5 rating to this question:
Did you experience the "detox" setback? Meaning, did you at first see improvements in your health and then had it stall and even slide backwards?
The selection options ranged from:
1= Not at all,
5 = Yes, definitely
So, there might be a gluten connection here. This possibility is also supported by other people on this diet who have reported an improvement in their health once they’ve also eliminated gluten.
Next, we have this supporting study linking gluten to alcohol dehydrogenase processing.
Wheat gluten-based diet retarded ethanol metabolism by altering alcohol dehydrogenase and not carnitine status in adult rats.
It is concluded that the WG diet reduced ADH activity and attenuated ethanol metabolism without significantly altering blood, liver and urinary carnitines in the adult rat.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8463515
Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity Triggers Gut Dysbiosis, Neuroinflammation, Gut-Brain Axis Dysfunction, and Vulnerability for Dementia: http://www.eurekaselect.com/128136/article
Thanks a bunch, Grant! 😁 It makes sense that gluten could be an important factor.
Gluten is a vegetable protein. As we know, protein (retinol-binding protein) is closely connected with Vitamin A. It could rise its serum level in the body and then we feel toxic effects more than we used to. So, gluten really can be the reason of the detoxification and it makes sence.
But I suppose we cannot overcome these detox circles. Just because people should know that they are still full of vitamin A(or retinoic acid) in their liver. I've seen several people on the survey results (I'm one of them, too), who's said that they experience detox symptoms but after them their health is getting a little bit better than it was before the detoxification. I think we eliminate vit A in a such way. Moreover, their detox sym. gradually is getting less, too. For example,in the 10th month they still experience bad symptoms but it's not so severe like in the 3-6th.
If following a gluten free diet it is important to be aware that many gluten free starches/flours are goitrogenic. Tapioca, corn, sweet potato, millet, soy, almond and more. A small amount of goitrogenic flour is probably not a problem however regular amounts from different sources might be.
White rice and white potatoes are non goitrogenic.
I see my grandmother as a person who was "vit A stingy" but she didn't get overcome by this "problem" until very old (98)
She ate tons of gluten, to the point where my hubby said: "English muffins must be the fountain of youth!".
I've spent years off of gluten and I did see some general lessening of inflammation. But not enough to make up for the problem it causes. (ie, the second best thing always has issues, as Tim says) and not enough to start my face healing.
People here have mentioned the Jaminets and their idea of "well-behaved starches". I suppose as things go, rice may be slightly more well-behaved than gluten. But in my mind, *if you aren't celiac* (big if) gluten is pretty low in toxins.
I didn't have any trouble adding back gluten.
I can see that a truly celiac person might be zinc deficient (as well as lots of other deficiencies).
When it comes to REAL allergies (like celiac or poison ivy) now we are REALLY talking about immune system things. (rather than retinol binding proteins)
Yeah I've never noticed any benefits from going gluten free for extended periods of time. I'm neutral on the issue though, because I just don't really know to what extent gluten plays a role in people's health problems.
Refined wheat flour was always considered the best grain product in the past, it has a delicious flavour, is versatile for baking and digested well due to being low in anti nutrients like fibre and phytic acid.
I think very few people have true celiac.
All the problems with wheat seem to have started at a similar time to glyphosate starting to be used.
Wheat gluten-based diet retarded ethanol metabolism by altering alcohol dehydrogenase and not carnitine status in adult rats.
Why would gluten cause an issue with alcohol dehydrogenase? Doesn't make much sense to me. Seems more likely it is something else in the wheat doing that.
Sigh! You are right--we must find the ORGANIC gluten products I think. Or, even better, bake from organic flour at home. I try but it's hard.
I think the glyphosate thing is easily forgotten... but it could be an important element in the development of vit A problems.
I ate gluten free during the 7 months I tried a low vitamin A diet.
My main health concerns were fatigue and joint pain. Half way through doing the diet I experienced completely new pain in one hand and developed a carpal boss. While I had some improvements on the diet (eyes, mouth less dry, a bit better skin) I'm unsure if its not also having adverse effects. And my fatigue, joint and neck pain have not improved at all. My fatigue got worse at the beginning of the diet then gradually went back to where it was pre-diet.
I did find out about oxalates from this forum though which I discovered I do react to. Perhaps I will improve with reducing that.
The low oxalate group also say that those going gluten free in addition to low oxalate tend to have better results. Perhaps its that wheat has higher levels of glyphosate than other grains?
I've also read an article that people with horrible gluten sensitivity in New Zealand (where I am) can eat wheat in other countries like France with no problems.
After pondering some more, I wonder if, for some people at least, eliminating gluten from the diet could do more HARM than good because their beneficial gut bacteria might be well-adapted to gluten and removing it could disrupt their balance of flora? There are so many factors to consider!
But then again, @lil-chick and @tim-2, there is the glyphosate, right! It can potentially be causing damage to the flora and more. @sophie Wheat can be desiccated (killed with glyphosate or another herbicide) prior to harvest so that it will potentially dry out more evenly and quickly. I was raised on a commercial farm, and my parents did not do that to their crops, but it isn’t uncommon. I’m not sure if they do this with other grains, or if every country allows this. I would also like to know if there is a difference in glyphosate levels between grains, but I wonder if it would be hard to test due to farming practicing differing so much.
Assuming we’re all eating organic, there might not be a universal answer to the question of “is gluten harmful in recovery from hypervitaminosis A?” If you are celiac, it is harmful. But since not everyone has the same gut flora, perhaps for some it is important to continue to eat wheat, especially as bread is a convenient and portable energy source while on an already limited diet?
@sophie, I need to drink raw milk to keep my carpal away, and so on this diet I have been having flare-ups.
IMO, B6 is run down in the process of being a high VA person.
I'm trying to find the lowest dose of raw milk that keeps my carpal away, since I've sworn off of supps.