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Alcohol and Vitamin A metabolism
Lemons: 1.5 gm fructose/30 mg vitamin C/ 13 UI vitamin A
Oranges(small): 9 gm fructose/51 mg vitamin C/216 UI vitamin A
Grapefruit (half): 8 gm fructose/34 mg vitamin C/14,016 vitamin A
Vitamin C - from at least one study, suggested that low bile production/cholestasis (potentially caused by retinoic acid/vitamin A) needed more vitamin C. This goes in line with the idea that scurvy (potential vitamin A issue) was solved by vitamin C undoing the vitamin A liver issues. Dang Ole Limeys
If we look at the ratios above, it may explain why lemons did much better for liver function.
I can't stand greens, starch (except wheat) and raw vegetables. As well as fish and offal. I like raw eggs, but not boiled.
Pretty much all of life on earth is in a constant evolutionary struggle to win an arms race. Any given animal can only devote so many resources to overcoming environmental challenges. This is what results in specialization and the huge differences in physiology between life forms. Humans specialized in hunting and eating animals, and by doing so probably lost any other specializations that our common ancestors have. However, we are unique in our extensive use of tools, which allows us to use a greater variety of other life forms for food than pretty much any other animal. But I don't think you can do much to fruit to make it more digestible, so I think we're stuck with an intermediate ability to utilize fructose without harming ourselves. This is mostly speculation on my part though, based on my knowledge of evolutionary principles.
Quote from Moebius on August 2, 2021, 5:35 pmSo, is the alcohol harmful or helpful in getting rid of vitamin A from the liver? Is it making the liver dump in a harmful way, or helpful way? What if we jack up the bile fluid and up the fiber intake, along with a good B-complex vitamin?
I found a study in this regard that I do not know how to interpret in the context of vA being poisonous.
https://ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(22)04412-4/fulltext
Please take a look at the chart from page 2 that I attach below.
Why would pathological state in the liver simultaneously have lower vA concentrations?
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Maybe the VA is only temporarily removed from the liver, so ethanol can be processed.
From the article:
"Thus, malabsorption was not the only reason for the depletion of hepatic vitamin A. Two possible mechanisms other than malabsorption were increased mobilization of vitamin A from the liver and enhanced catabolism of vitamin A in the liver or other organs. There is experimental evidence for both. Indeed, vitamin A in the kidneys and testes was increased even when hepatic vitamin A was depleted (4). Furthermore, an acute nonlethal dose of ethanol significantly decreased hepatic vitamin A, whereas serum vitamin A increased as did retinyl esters in serum lipoproteins (22)."
I think this explains why alcohol results in worse health even while liver VA is depleted. It only ends up in other places, where it may be processed to RA and cause harm. Better wait for the body to expel retinol via the biliary route (maybe helped by activated charcoal).
Quote from Viktor2 on January 19, 2024, 1:08 pmI think this explains why alcohol results in worse health even while liver VA is depleted. It only ends up in other places, where it may be processed to RA and cause harm. Better wait for the body to expel retinol via the biliary route (maybe helped by activated charcoal).
Very interesting thought and I suppose I am experimenting with this right now. There are very few days in the last 40+ years that I have not had an alcohol drink. Luckily, I have a very low tolerance for alcohol, as many do here, so I am a one-drink-per-day alcoholic. I gave up alcohol 3 weeks ago and it sometimes feels like I'm on a 40-year hangover. IMO, dropping alcohol should be added to the list of activities that "stir things up". And the "stirred up" issue might be another reason alcohol is so addictive. It's soothes the "stirred up" condition.
I have a close family relative that doesn't/hasn't consumed alcohol at all, and he is NOT free from VA toxicity (my own assessment). He leans toward symptoms like rosacea, vertigo and insomnia. So, I don't think that dropping alcohol is going to be 100% of the answer to "how to live better in a world of VA?". But it might be *part* of how to live better. (for the record, this person also doesn't drink coffee, so he is a pretty interesting case.). Perhaps he would be much sicker if he did drink alcohol--at this time his symptoms are manageable. He has a moderately-heavy VA diet.
I have a lot of respect for traditional foods and wonder why our ancestors thought of alcohol as OK or even beneficial. Perhaps that was just the addiction talking. They also thought smoking was OK/beneficial. Thoughts like "it's traditional!" are why I have never taken too much time off of alcohol. Another close relative has drank much like me for a lifetime and is now in kidney failure. This relative also has smoked as well. Kidney failure might be a possible end-game of these addictions.
It's interesting that Grant did not include alcohol in his recovery diet.
Quote from lil chick on January 21, 2024, 7:48 amQuote from Viktor2 on January 19, 2024, 1:08 pmI think this explains why alcohol results in worse health even while liver VA is depleted. It only ends up in other places, where it may be processed to RA and cause harm. Better wait for the body to expel retinol via the biliary route (maybe helped by activated charcoal).
Very interesting thought and I suppose I am experimenting with this right now. There are very few days in the last 40+ years that I have not had an alcohol drink. Luckily, I have a very low tolerance for alcohol, as many do here, so I am a one-drink-per-day alcoholic. I gave up alcohol 3 weeks ago and it sometimes feels like I'm on a 40-year hangover. IMO, dropping alcohol should be added to the list of activities that "stir things up". And the "stirred up" issue might be another reason alcohol is so addictive. It's soothes the "stirred up" condition.
I have a close family relative that doesn't/hasn't consumed alcohol at all, and he is NOT free from VA toxicity (my own assessment). He leans toward symptoms like rosacea, vertigo and insomnia. So, I don't think that dropping alcohol is going to be 100% of the answer to "how to live better in a world of VA?". But it might be *part* of how to live better. (for the record, this person also doesn't drink coffee, so he is a pretty interesting case.). Perhaps he would be much sicker if he did drink alcohol--at this time his symptoms are manageable. He has a moderately-heavy VA diet.
I have a lot of respect for traditional foods and wonder why our ancestors thought of alcohol as OK or even beneficial. Perhaps that was just the addiction talking. They also thought smoking was OK/beneficial. Thoughts like "it's traditional!" are why I have never taken too much time off of alcohol. Another close relative has drank much like me for a lifetime and is now in kidney failure. This relative also has smoked as well. Kidney failure might be a possible end-game of these addictions.
It's interesting that Grant did not include alcohol in his recovery diet.
@lil-chick strong of you to ditch the alcohol! I think it is your body detoxing now, why it want feel so good.... for a while.
I do think, if the liver is compromised with any toxicity, taking alcohol is not wise.
It is a different thing if your liver is happy, it has no issues metabolizing some wine here and there. I have decided to pretty much avoid alcohol until I get all the gunk out 😉
I think you are right about the alcohol "soothing" the stirred up thing.