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Amber O'Hearn on Carnivore Lowering Threshold for Hypervitaminosis A?
Amber O'Hearn wrote this paragraph on her website back in October. It is in the middle of an article on getting started with carnivore and I just now stumbled upon it.
"2023-10-19 Update 2: It has increasingly bothered me over the years that not only do the most successful long term Carnivore dieters rarely or never eat liver, but those influencers who have come along since this post was written and insisted that liver must be eaten to ensure adequate nutrition (complete with a handy supplement to sell for those who don't like it) have all gone off the diet saying it's unsustainable. I've long been leaning toward an explanation that the diet lowers the threshold of hypervitaminosis A.
I started writing a post on this topic some years ago, and intend to post more on that soon."
https://www.mostly-fat.com/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat/
Amber O'Hearn wrote this paragraph on her website back in October. It is in the middle of an article on getting started with carnivore and I just now stumbled upon it.
"2023-10-19 Update 2: It has increasingly bothered me over the years that not only do the most successful long term Carnivore dieters rarely or never eat liver, but those influencers who have come along since this post was written and insisted that liver must be eaten to ensure adequate nutrition (complete with a handy supplement to sell for those who don't like it) have all gone off the diet saying it's unsustainable. I've long been leaning toward an explanation that the diet lowers the threshold of hypervitaminosis A.
I started writing a post on this topic some years ago, and intend to post more on that soon."
https://www.mostly-fat.com/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat/
Deleted user has reacted to this post.
My interpretation of the phrase "lowers the threshold" is that an omnivore can consume more vitamin A without symptoms than a carnivore. It is not necessarily about the threshold continuing to change over time, although it might end up being that if Amber gets around to writing the full-length blog post.
On this forum of people consuming low vitamin A diets, those on a carnivore diet report fewer symptoms from "vitamin A detox" than those on an omnivore diet. Indeed, Paola Dziwetzki is very vocal about her low symptoms on her carnivore diet on the social media site X.
My interpretation of the phrase "lowers the threshold" is that an omnivore can consume more vitamin A without symptoms than a carnivore. It is not necessarily about the threshold continuing to change over time, although it might end up being that if Amber gets around to writing the full-length blog post.
On this forum of people consuming low vitamin A diets, those on a carnivore diet report fewer symptoms from "vitamin A detox" than those on an omnivore diet. Indeed, Paola Dziwetzki is very vocal about her low symptoms on her carnivore diet on the social media site X.
Quote from
kularity on May 2, 2024, 2:31 am
My interpretation of the phrase "lowers the threshold" is that an omnivore can consume more vitamin A without symptoms than a carnivore. It is not necessarily about the threshold continuing to change over time, although it might end up being that if Amber gets around to writing the full-length blog post.
On this forum of people consuming low vitamin A diets, those on a carnivore diet report fewer symptoms from "vitamin A detox" than those on an omnivore diet. Indeed, Paola Dziwetzki is very vocal about her low symptoms on her carnivore diet on the social media site X.
This seems abit paradoxical since many around here seems to push fiber as important in handling the detox. Are there any good explanations of how this all fits together?
My interpretation of the phrase "lowers the threshold" is that an omnivore can consume more vitamin A without symptoms than a carnivore. It is not necessarily about the threshold continuing to change over time, although it might end up being that if Amber gets around to writing the full-length blog post.
On this forum of people consuming low vitamin A diets, those on a carnivore diet report fewer symptoms from "vitamin A detox" than those on an omnivore diet. Indeed, Paola Dziwetzki is very vocal about her low symptoms on her carnivore diet on the social media site X.
This seems abit paradoxical since many around here seems to push fiber as important in handling the detox. Are there any good explanations of how this all fits together?
Quote from
kularity on May 2, 2024, 2:31 am
This seems abit paradoxical since many around here seems to push fiber as important in handling the detox. Are there any good explanations of how this all fits together?
Carnivore dieters lack symptoms of detox so no carnivore influencers discuss vitamin A detox. Anthony Chaffee and Amber O'Hearn urge caution in eating too much liver. Chaffee doesn't really eat liver and O'Hearn eats it only occasionally. Shawn Baker also doesn't eat liver to my knowledge. The long term carnivores (decades) like the late The Bear and some living people tend to do steak only.
Judy Cho is the main carnivore influencer who has written about hypervitaminosis extensively. She also interviewed Grant and Dr Smith on her podcast. But vitamin A detox is not a theme of her clinical practice, either.
Robert Cywes is a current carnivore influencer who is pro liver. So is Zsofia Clemens from the Hungarian clinic Paleomedicina.
It is still unclear how much vitamin A is being detoxed by carnivore dieters, because no one is talking about it or measuring it. Meat also contains some vitamin A, despite what government nutritional databases claim.
Quote from
kularity on May 2, 2024, 2:31 am
This seems abit paradoxical since many around here seems to push fiber as important in handling the detox. Are there any good explanations of how this all fits together?
Carnivore dieters lack symptoms of detox so no carnivore influencers discuss vitamin A detox. Anthony Chaffee and Amber O'Hearn urge caution in eating too much liver. Chaffee doesn't really eat liver and O'Hearn eats it only occasionally. Shawn Baker also doesn't eat liver to my knowledge. The long term carnivores (decades) like the late The Bear and some living people tend to do steak only.
Judy Cho is the main carnivore influencer who has written about hypervitaminosis extensively. She also interviewed Grant and Dr Smith on her podcast. But vitamin A detox is not a theme of her clinical practice, either.
Robert Cywes is a current carnivore influencer who is pro liver. So is Zsofia Clemens from the Hungarian clinic Paleomedicina.
It is still unclear how much vitamin A is being detoxed by carnivore dieters, because no one is talking about it or measuring it. Meat also contains some vitamin A, despite what government nutritional databases claim.
Amber O'Hearn wrote...
" I've long been leaning toward an explanation that the diet lowers the threshold of hypervitaminosis A.
I started writing a post on this topic some years ago, and intend to post more on that soon."
https://www.mostly-fat.com/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat/
The way I'm reading it: symptomatic VA toxicity is easier to get to if you are carnivore
Just the fact that it is hard to figure out WHAT she means, means that probably she should be asked. I'm just going by the one sentence. I didn't click the link yet. Maybe it clarifies.
Amber O'Hearn wrote...
" I've long been leaning toward an explanation that the diet lowers the threshold of hypervitaminosis A.
I started writing a post on this topic some years ago, and intend to post more on that soon."
https://www.mostly-fat.com/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat/
The way I'm reading it: symptomatic VA toxicity is easier to get to if you are carnivore
Just the fact that it is hard to figure out WHAT she means, means that probably she should be asked. I'm just going by the one sentence. I didn't click the link yet. Maybe it clarifies.
Here is my guess: Most people who are desperate enough to try carnivore are already vitamin A toxic. And in so being have no leeway for liver. If you started a young healthy person on carnivore they could probably tolerate liver. Historically this would have been how most explorers or men in extended hunting expeditions lived while away (ie carnivore).
Here is my guess: Most people who are desperate enough to try carnivore are already vitamin A toxic. And in so being have no leeway for liver. If you started a young healthy person on carnivore they could probably tolerate liver. Historically this would have been how most explorers or men in extended hunting expeditions lived while away (ie carnivore).
Influencers who have stopped carnivore include Paul Saladino, Frank Trufano, Joe Mercola, and the Armstrong Sisters. All of these folks ate organ meats and currently sell them in fresh or pill forms (Saladino, Trufano, the Armstrongs) or own a big company selling synthetic vitamins (Mercola). Trufano is the only one who acknowledged vitamin A toxicity and went on a vitamin A detox diet similar to Grant's, although to my knowledge he continues to sell organ meats and vitamin supplements. Saladino, Mercola and the Armstrongs have switched to the high-carb Ray Peat / bioenergetic diet, which is positive on vitamin A.
Influencers who have stopped carnivore include Paul Saladino, Frank Trufano, Joe Mercola, and the Armstrong Sisters. All of these folks ate organ meats and currently sell them in fresh or pill forms (Saladino, Trufano, the Armstrongs) or own a big company selling synthetic vitamins (Mercola). Trufano is the only one who acknowledged vitamin A toxicity and went on a vitamin A detox diet similar to Grant's, although to my knowledge he continues to sell organ meats and vitamin supplements. Saladino, Mercola and the Armstrongs have switched to the high-carb Ray Peat / bioenergetic diet, which is positive on vitamin A.
Deleted user and Andrew B have reacted to this post.
Quote from
kularity on May 3, 2024, 3:25 am
@jeremy
Did a quick check on Tufanos YT. he does not look so great. His demenour is weird there something strange with his eyes etc.
found a video where he talks about getting copper toxicity. didnt see one about getting vitamin-a toxicity but maybe i didnt look hard enough.
@jeremy
Did a quick check on Tufanos YT. he does not look so great. His demenour is weird there something strange with his eyes etc.
found a video where he talks about getting copper toxicity. didnt see one about getting vitamin-a toxicity but maybe i didnt look hard enough.
Retinoicon has reacted to this post.
I'm not a Tufano watcher but there have been a few threads about him! He had plastic surgery on his eyes and is unhappy with how they turned out. Surgery should always be way far down on the to-do list...
I'm not a Tufano watcher but there have been a few threads about him! He had plastic surgery on his eyes and is unhappy with how they turned out. Surgery should always be way far down on the to-do list...
Retinoicon has reacted to this post.
Quote from
kularity on May 3, 2024, 6:53 am
Wow, thats seems rash. He was a perfectly okay looking dude. weird choice.
Wow, thats seems rash. He was a perfectly okay looking dude. weird choice.
Retinoicon has reacted to this post.
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