Quote from Jiří on August 3, 2021, 11:07 am

I started taking choline bitartrate. I think I am deficient and that keeps my liver in bad shape. Especially now when I eat more fructose from simple sugars.. Will take like 2g a day. Will see if it helps after some time..

Quote from Liz on October 9, 2022, 12:12 am

@joel @jiri an update would be interesting if you don't mind, how did choline supplement affect you? Do you still use it (supplement or food sources)?

Quote from Jiří on October 9, 2022, 12:30 am

@liz I don't se any effect negative or positive.  So I think choline deficiency is not my problem. Especially when I eat meat daily at least 400g... But it seems that I have issues with insuline sensitivity due to eating too many carbs even when I am not that active.. SO now I am trying to lower my carb intake and also keep my blood sugar stable by not eating simple carbs even fruits alone. If I eat some fruit it is only after full meal or during physical activity.. Also I am trying to eat no carbs with first meal. So there is more time for the body to burn all excess of sugar stored in the liver during the night and morning.. I had NAFLD for sure when I was on Ray Peat diet. Eating sugar(a lot of fructose) all time time.. That is really bad for the liver. Especially if the person is not crazy physically active.. 

Quote from Liz on October 9, 2022, 1:05 am

Thanks @jiri for the update, same for Grant, meat seems to have been enough for him as well. I do have symptoms of low choline despite eating 4-500g (sometimes more) muscle meat daily so I have started incorporating daily eggs to see if there will be improvements. Do keep us posted on your lower carb progress 🙂 

Quote from Andrew B on October 28, 2022, 10:29 am

On the Vitamin A reduction diet I've been doing 4 eggs a day for 6 months now. I do think 1-2 eggs a day throughout the 3 year reduction has been a help rather than a hindrance. An egg has 5-7% of the RDA for Vitamin A. Less than butter at 11% RDA for one tablespoon. Butter didn't entirely agree with me perhaps because of the fat content. So it's easy to see why I gravitated to the eggs with less vitamin A, less fat, more protein, more choline, selenium, biotin, folate and zinc. I also cook with eggs in fishcakes, pancakes, apple sponges and fryups. Easy to eat and cheaper than buying beef which I couldn't eat enough of. I've also been using organic spelt flour and quinoa which supply betaine for the last 6 months.

 

Eating eggs made me feel fuller and the cravings for beef went away. My digestion has become much more resilient to food reactions. Digestion has improved with easier bowel movements and less rumbling stomach. I feel my mental health has been much better as I deal with living in a poorly soundproofed building and noises from the flat below. My eczema and itching has reduced on the upper body and now is mainly on the lower legs as the detox continues strongly with some bile getting into the blood. Parasympathetic activity has improved with greater relaxation and an orthostatic problem has now resolved. My hair at the back of my neck has thickened up where it had shown signs of thinning.

 

Choline and betaine together are very helpful for resolving non alcoholic fatty liver disease. They are also very helpful for supplying methylation factors which may be needed with high vit A toxicity and when detoxing from it. You would get better methylation from reducing vit A but you still need extra methylation factors while you get there. Extra choline may be needed by those with celiac problems, gluten/glyphosate intolerance, post menopause, genetic issues, methylation issues and indeed by those with vit A toxicity. The latter being possibly because it causes dryness and causes hypoxia.

 

Choline helps cell membranes, hypoxia and endothelial cells. Betaine is osmoprotective and helps liver and kidney hydration. Choline is very important for cell membranes being regenerated in the liver throughout vit A reduction. Choline helping digestion in all likelihood helps nutrient absorption and limited studies have shown good results for magnesium and B12. Choline may also help remove copper which often helps in conjunction with vit A reduction. Synthetically it has been used in combination with molybdenum to remove copper. Choline is required to produce acetylcholine a neurotransmitter which helps with memory, mood and intelligence. We need acetylcholine to run the parasympathetic nervous system and it's important to be in this state for healing during a detox. Lack of choline may hamper healing for some.

Quote from Liz on October 29, 2022, 1:19 pm

Great to see you here Andrew 😊. Thank you for sharing your progress.

Quote from Andrew B on November 7, 2022, 8:31 am

Parasympathetic activity helps you detox. The parasympathetic nervous system depends on acetylcholine. Poor digestion, poor short term memory, muscle fatigue, dry eyes, flushing, erratic moods, light sensitivity and fast heart rate might be some indicators of low acetylcholine. Improving acetylcholine levels and the workings of the vagus nerve helps detox. B5 from foods like avocados, mushrooms, lamb hearts, sunflower seeds, chicken and eggs might help. Choline from eggs, beef, chicken, fish, beans, cauliflower and sunflower seeds might help. Walking might help. Physical therapy might help. B1 from foods like oats, brazil nuts, macadamia nuts and pork might help. Stress relief might help. Zinc and magnesium might help.

 

Having to worry too much about a restricted diet creates a fear around eating and keeps you out of parasympathetic activity. Keep it simple avoid or reduce the high carotenoid sources like orange carrots, sweet potatoes, squash, cantaloupe melon, red peppers, kale, spinach, tomatoes and avoid or reduce high Vitamin A like liver and dairy. Stop worrying about small sources of Vitamin A when it's choline that helps the liver detox them. It's counterproductive to have constant worry when detox depends on relaxation. Particularly in winter switch the lights off early and/or use a red light bulb and let melatonin rise naturally with the darkness. Deep breathing and meditation can enhance that too. That will help increase and deepen parasympathetic activity at night and during sleep. The lymphatic system works better in a parasympathetic state which helps to remove waste.

 

https://vagusnervesupport.com/top-ten-symptoms-low-acetylcholine/?fbclid=IwAR2kETKDL4gwJrSmBbzppeDH1gMU3DW-rgPbDs4edjsqEuoNrCxJv6dhoQg

 

https://www.polar.com/blog/parasympathetic-nervous-system/?fbclid=IwAR3TZoyYVFFsk9jQcJqcRckCX-sIk4tQh1UVpe6LAcjB_efGnNFC_sY2S14

 

https://drpompa.com/cellular-health/the-lymphatic-system-and-relaxation-benefits-of-moving-lymph-fluid/#:~:text=The%20lymphatic%20system%20and%20parasympathetic%20state%20have%20a,most%20essential%20factors%20in%20stimulating%20lymph%20flow.%209

Quote from Andrew B on November 12, 2022, 5:08 am

Highest foods for choline in order mgs per 100 grams. An adequate intake is 425 mgs for women and 550 mgs for men. Some people with genetic issues, methylation issues and older women might need more. Plus other significant nutrients and Vitamin A IUs and lutein mcgs. Other similar food group items like beef, fish and pork generally slightly lower than listed items. Roughly 2 large eggs equals 100 grams. Pot short for potassium. Mag magnesium. Se selenium.

 

1. Fish eggs 335. Se, B2, B12, DHA. Vit A 299. Lutein 214.

2. Eggs 317. B2, B5, B12, Se. Vit A 787. Lutein 543.

3. Whey powder 225. B2, B5, B12, Pot, Zinc, Se. Vit A 59. Lutein 0.

4. Wheat germ 179. B1, B2, B9, Se, Mag, Zinc. Vit A 103. Lutein 790.

5. Shrimp 135. Se, B12. Vit A 301. Lutein 0.

6. Eastern oysters 130. B12, DHA, Zinc, Se. Vit A 88. Lutein 0.

7. Round steak trimmed 128. Zinc, Se, B3, B12, B6. Vit A 0 Lutein 0.

8. Mustard seed 123. Pot, Se, Zinc, B9, B1. Vit A 31. Lutein 568.

9. Chicken breast 117. Se, B3, B6, B5. Vit A 33. Lutein 0.

10. Sockeye salmon 113. Se, B12, DHA. Vit A 193. Lutein 0.

11. Scallops 111. Se, B12. Vit A 5. Lutein 0.

12. Lean Canadian bacon 105. Pot, Se, B3. Vit A 0. Lutein 0.

13. Turkey thigh 96. Se, B12, B3. Vitamin A 18. Lutein 0.

14. Flax seeds 79. Fibre, Mag, Se, B1. Vit A 0. Lutein 651.

15. Peanut butter 66. Mag, Se, B3, B6. Vit A 0. Lutein 0.

16. Fat free cream cheese 65. B12. Vit A 53. Lutein 0.

17. Pumpkin seeds 63. Pot, B3. Vit A 16. Lutein 74.

18. Cashews 61. Mag, B5. Vit A 0. Lutein 23.

19. Cauliflower 59. Vit C. Vit A 144. Lutein 39.

20. Sunflower seeds 55. Mag, B9, B6, B3, B1. Vit A 50. Lutein 0.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote from wavygravygadzooks on November 12, 2022, 12:23 pm

About 1.5 pounds of raw beef would cover the 550 mg for an adult male.