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Carbs vs Ketones, what energy substrate is preferred during VA detox?
Quote from
Kurtis on February 11, 2021, 9:50 pm
Title. My experience with a "balanced" keto diet was mostly negative - no increase in energy, a noticeable increase in anxiety, generally felt crappy, however I was eating a lot of vitamin A during my brief period in keto & didn't stick to it for very long. My experience with strict carnivore (red meat & fat only) was positive in the beginning, very little inflammation, however I started eating liver about a month into the diet which may have contributed to me quitting it. The complete lack of food choice was unbearable for me too after a while, and my first carb-heavy meal after gave me so much energy to the point where it felt like I was on some kind of stimulant-drug.
Despite my experience I am starting to think loading up on carbohydrates, even when they're low on VA may hinder the detox process, and on days where I fast past 12 o'clock I notice a distinct "clear" feeling that people who have experimented with fasting may know about, I also experienced this same feeling during my period on a strict carnivore diet which is what made it attractive to me, some people attribute this feeling to an increase in cortisol that is apparently caused by low glucose in the blood stream, but I don't know whether this is a positive or negative.
I'm interested in the forums thoughts on the matter.
Title. My experience with a "balanced" keto diet was mostly negative - no increase in energy, a noticeable increase in anxiety, generally felt crappy, however I was eating a lot of vitamin A during my brief period in keto & didn't stick to it for very long. My experience with strict carnivore (red meat & fat only) was positive in the beginning, very little inflammation, however I started eating liver about a month into the diet which may have contributed to me quitting it. The complete lack of food choice was unbearable for me too after a while, and my first carb-heavy meal after gave me so much energy to the point where it felt like I was on some kind of stimulant-drug.
Despite my experience I am starting to think loading up on carbohydrates, even when they're low on VA may hinder the detox process, and on days where I fast past 12 o'clock I notice a distinct "clear" feeling that people who have experimented with fasting may know about, I also experienced this same feeling during my period on a strict carnivore diet which is what made it attractive to me, some people attribute this feeling to an increase in cortisol that is apparently caused by low glucose in the blood stream, but I don't know whether this is a positive or negative.
I'm interested in the forums thoughts on the matter.
Quote from
Jiří on February 12, 2021, 12:14 am
@kurtis ketosis is plan B for the body(survival scenario). It's good to cycle carbs from moderate to low carb intake to learn the body use fats as fuel source, but it is damaging in long term. Especially if you have high stress life style you will burn out pretty fast on keto diet..
@kurtis ketosis is plan B for the body(survival scenario). It's good to cycle carbs from moderate to low carb intake to learn the body use fats as fuel source, but it is damaging in long term. Especially if you have high stress life style you will burn out pretty fast on keto diet..
Quote from
rockarolla on February 12, 2021, 4:55 am
I have a multi year exp with keto and carnivore diet - its a dead end. For one thing ketones downregulate immunity (BHB deactivates NLRP3 inflammasome). Also keto/carnivore diet eventually leads to carbs intolerance - not a good thing either.
But maybe its positive effect (from no/very little Vit A C D carotenoids oxalates polyphenols salicylates) outweigh negatives for the first 6-24 months though.
I have a multi year exp with keto and carnivore diet - its a dead end. For one thing ketones downregulate immunity (BHB deactivates NLRP3 inflammasome). Also keto/carnivore diet eventually leads to carbs intolerance - not a good thing either.
But maybe its positive effect (from no/very little Vit A C D carotenoids oxalates polyphenols salicylates) outweigh negatives for the first 6-24 months though.
Quote from
mmb3664 on February 12, 2021, 5:15 am
Quote from
Kurtis on February 11, 2021, 9:50 pm
Despite my experience I am starting to think loading up on carbohydrates, even when they're low on VA may hinder the detox process, and on days where I fast past 12 o'clock I notice a distinct "clear" feeling that people who have experimented with fasting may know about, I also experienced this same feeling during my period on a strict carnivore diet which is what made it attractive to me, some people attribute this feeling to an increase in cortisol that is apparently caused by low glucose in the blood stream, but I don't know whether this is a positive or negative.
This "clear" feeling from fasting and/or carnivore may also be attributable to the reduction in gut irritants when following those dietary protocols. A lot of carbohydrate-rich foods contain compounds such as gluten, lectins, starch, etc. that can cause intestinal irritation. This article talks more about it.
Quote from
Kurtis on February 11, 2021, 9:50 pm
Despite my experience I am starting to think loading up on carbohydrates, even when they're low on VA may hinder the detox process, and on days where I fast past 12 o'clock I notice a distinct "clear" feeling that people who have experimented with fasting may know about, I also experienced this same feeling during my period on a strict carnivore diet which is what made it attractive to me, some people attribute this feeling to an increase in cortisol that is apparently caused by low glucose in the blood stream, but I don't know whether this is a positive or negative.
This "clear" feeling from fasting and/or carnivore may also be attributable to the reduction in gut irritants when following those dietary protocols. A lot of carbohydrate-rich foods contain compounds such as gluten, lectins, starch, etc. that can cause intestinal irritation. This article talks more about it.
Quote from
lil chick on February 12, 2021, 6:13 am
After some experimentation of my own with the different levels of low carb I decided it was a thing that people with big problems might want to try (such as type 1 or epilepsy) but maybe not such a great idea for the rest of us.
HOWEVER, just these last two weeks I've been trying out life with some set hours of not eating between meals. Nothing but water between. And there have been some interesting results. For one thing, I think I got rid of some excess water. For another, I was getting more done.
Eating is toxic and a stress and eats up time!
3 squares is the tradition... with time between to complete the process and clear the deck
After some experimentation of my own with the different levels of low carb I decided it was a thing that people with big problems might want to try (such as type 1 or epilepsy) but maybe not such a great idea for the rest of us.
HOWEVER, just these last two weeks I've been trying out life with some set hours of not eating between meals. Nothing but water between. And there have been some interesting results. For one thing, I think I got rid of some excess water. For another, I was getting more done.
Eating is toxic and a stress and eats up time!
3 squares is the tradition... with time between to complete the process and clear the deck
Quote from
Jiří on February 12, 2021, 7:43 am
Quote from
rockarolla on February 12, 2021, 4:55 am
I have a multi year exp with keto and carnivore diet - its a dead end. For one thing ketones downregulate immunity (BHB deactivates NLRP3 inflammasome). Also keto/carnivore diet eventually leads to carbs intolerance - not a good thing either.
But maybe its positive effect (from no/very little Vit A C D carotenoids oxalates polyphenols salicylates) outweigh negatives for the first 6-24 months though.
Keto/carnivore is low in vit D? The only foods with D3 are animal foods..? You think vit D is bad? Even during the winter when you basically don't see the sun for 6 months??
Quote from
rockarolla on February 12, 2021, 4:55 am
I have a multi year exp with keto and carnivore diet - its a dead end. For one thing ketones downregulate immunity (BHB deactivates NLRP3 inflammasome). Also keto/carnivore diet eventually leads to carbs intolerance - not a good thing either.
But maybe its positive effect (from no/very little Vit A C D carotenoids oxalates polyphenols salicylates) outweigh negatives for the first 6-24 months though.
Keto/carnivore is low in vit D? The only foods with D3 are animal foods..? You think vit D is bad? Even during the winter when you basically don't see the sun for 6 months??
Quote from
rockarolla on February 12, 2021, 1:36 pm
Yes, typical carnivore diet is pretty low in D3 unless one also eats fish. In healthy body D25 has a huge half life, like several months at least, so summer time reload should be enough, besides D25 auto normalizes with inflammation drop without much intervention and vice versa if one is having systemic inflammation(like CFS) he/she will have a hard time raising D25 levels even with supplements.
On paper supplementing D is as good as A and C, but in practice for many complicated reasons it typically brings more harm than good at the end.
Also, Why Vitamin D Supplements Are Extremely Toxic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXvxOqmlzg
^^^ (c) Dr. Garrett Smith 😉
+++ Vitamin-D: Why Does it 'Work' So Well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60-VAun2R6Q
Yes, typical carnivore diet is pretty low in D3 unless one also eats fish. In healthy body D25 has a huge half life, like several months at least, so summer time reload should be enough, besides D25 auto normalizes with inflammation drop without much intervention and vice versa if one is having systemic inflammation(like CFS) he/she will have a hard time raising D25 levels even with supplements.
On paper supplementing D is as good as A and C, but in practice for many complicated reasons it typically brings more harm than good at the end.
Also, Why Vitamin D Supplements Are Extremely Toxic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXvxOqmlzg
^^^ (c) Dr. Garrett Smith 😉
+++ Vitamin-D: Why Does it 'Work' So Well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60-VAun2R6Q
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Quote from
Jiří on February 13, 2021, 2:13 am
@rockarolla That old guy says 5-15 minutes a day 3 times a week exposure to sun with hands and face is enough. Really?Also this "rat poison" argument is laughable. Everything can be a poison in high enough dose and also I don't know if rats are designed like humans to make and use D3??? Also show me the evidence people are dying from immune system shut down, because they take D3 in normal doses which is like 2-4000iu in the winter when UVB is not available to them?? People like that should end up with cancer, because that's basically final end stage of suppressed immune system right?
@rockarolla That old guy says 5-15 minutes a day 3 times a week exposure to sun with hands and face is enough. Really?Also this "rat poison" argument is laughable. Everything can be a poison in high enough dose and also I don't know if rats are designed like humans to make and use D3??? Also show me the evidence people are dying from immune system shut down, because they take D3 in normal doses which is like 2-4000iu in the winter when UVB is not available to them?? People like that should end up with cancer, because that's basically final end stage of suppressed immune system right?
Quote from
rockarolla on February 13, 2021, 4:26 am
For one thing both A and D suppress/downregulate TLR receptors on leukocytes (secosteroid hormone properties).
For one thing both A and D suppress/downregulate TLR receptors on leukocytes (secosteroid hormone properties).
Quote from
rockarolla on February 13, 2021, 4:47 am
@jiri
here is some data I was able to collect on TLR receptors:
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/vitamin-d-marshall-protocol-perspective/?part=3#postid-11386
BTW, Vit A(as a hormone) suppresses TLR receptors too:
Retinol suppresses the activation of Toll-like receptors in MyD88- and STAT1-independent manners
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23086657/
Dysregulation of Toll-like receptor (TLR) activation is well known to be linked to development and aggravation of inflammatory diseases and immune disorders. Retinol is reported to participate in regulation of immune responses. However, it has not been fully understood how retinol regulates TLR activation in macrophages. Our results showed that retinol suppressed the expression of various inflammatory cytokines in bone marrow-derived macrophages stimulated with ligands of TLR2, TLR3, or TLR4. These demonstrate that inhibitory effect of retinol is not limited to a single TLR.
@jiri
here is some data I was able to collect on TLR receptors:
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/vitamin-d-marshall-protocol-perspective/?part=3#postid-11386
BTW, Vit A(as a hormone) suppresses TLR receptors too:
Retinol suppresses the activation of Toll-like receptors in MyD88- and STAT1-independent manners
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23086657/
Dysregulation of Toll-like receptor (TLR) activation is well known to be linked to development and aggravation of inflammatory diseases and immune disorders. Retinol is reported to participate in regulation of immune responses. However, it has not been fully understood how retinol regulates TLR activation in macrophages. Our results showed that retinol suppressed the expression of various inflammatory cytokines in bone marrow-derived macrophages stimulated with ligands of TLR2, TLR3, or TLR4. These demonstrate that inhibitory effect of retinol is not limited to a single TLR.
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