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carnivore/detox/fiber
Hello everyone,
Several times in the forum, @ggenereux2014 mentioned the fact that carnivore people don't experiment the detox setback.
It's makes me wonder if the soluble fiber is really that important ? We see some people going on carnivore (without vitamin A of course) and reverse fatty liver diseases for example. What are you thoughts about this ?
Also, on the subject of bile I don't understand why the body would reabsorb toxic substance, it makes no sense to me. Open about this too.
Take care
There may be an interaction with bad gut bacteria and bile. If you have particular strains of bacteria (also in the wrong place like the small intestine) then they can turn things in the bile that were already being detoxed and eliminated into something more toxic again. Soluble fiber can help shift the microbiome because the good bacteria need the fiber to survive. It can also help heal small intestinal bacterial overgrowth which is the cause of so many bad things by thinning out the bile which then eliminates the bacteria living there. But maybe carnivore just starves everything! Because then it isn't being fed at all. There could be long term consequences from that like an inability to tolerate beans and grains afterwards. We need to consider that before trying extreme diets.
It is my understanding of Karen Hurd that the body wants to recycle bile. If there is no fiber to soak up the toxins they remain in the bile and get circulated to the blood and other tissues before returning to the liver.
An example in my case is that I resolved hemorrhoids by eating beans. Many people would say it was the fiber in the beans that provided bulk. But my hemorrhoids were only once a month when estrogen would be high otherwise I never noticed them. Now estrogen and other toxins are removed by the soluble fiber on a continuous basis.
Regarding reabsorbing bile:
When you eat you make chyme which is a slurry of food and digestive juices. When this chyme has almost passed the small intestine and are about to enter the large intestine quite a bit of the bile is reabsorbed.
I think it makes perfect sense for two reasons even though unbound bile is toxic/damaging to living cells:
- Firstly as the food chyme goes through the large intestine the chyme loses water, effectively becoming more concentrated and even more damaging to cells along the way. Bleeding intestines or even holes in intestines might kill you. If not you will have diarreha, from not extra concentrating the food chyme, less damaging but still damaging to the intestines and possibly causing dehydration.
- Secondly, there is a microbiome living in the large intestine that can possibly make benefical things for us human if we have a fitting microbiome that is sufficiently fed. Flushing the large intestine with bile can probably kill off much of the beneficial microbiome, leaving an unbalanced microbiome that is inherently more bile-tolerant (I imagine it might be like the cockroaches of the microbiome that can survive almost anything).
@jessica2 no i have not tried it, is it similar to chlorine dioxide? I use that as a mouthwash. Seems they are similar but different. I have tried peroxide and oh my it was extremely damaging, made me think it really was an immune system problem and not any kind of infection. But I've tried so many things why not add another thing? lol I'm actually considering the carotenoid angle, I was way more itchy the day after eating too much chili powder.
I haven't had detox symptoms but also only biopsies of the liver can really measure vitamin A detox, which no one on any dietary approach does for this purpose. My guess is that fiber on carnivore diet is not important for vitamin A detox, although I lack proof.
There are zillions of videos and posts about fiber and carnivore, although probably no single video about all three of carnivore, fiber and vitamin A detox. The usual comment is that the gut adapts to the food you are eating, so a carnivore dieter will have a different microbiome than someone eating an omnivorous diet. Carnivorous animals (lions, wolves) and mostly carnivorous humans like adult male Masai do not have any reported issues with their microbiomes. There was a study about constipation in western humans where the zero carb group did much better that the treatment group, which was not the result that the study authors predicted ahead of time.
Experience seems to indicate that carnivores should keep their fat intake high. If your stools are hard, add more animal fat. Many long term carnivore dieters eat fatty, untrimmed grain fed ribeye and water; no or little salt. Any deviation from this could introduce issues so just be aware that ribeyes and water are the defaults. Think about the human evolutionary diet being focused on fat for energy, with our ancestors using weapons to hunt megafauna with tons of body fat and additionally using tools to break open the bones for marrow and the skulls for brains.
Sorry for any information you didn't directly ask for.