I think there needs to be a distinction drawn between low carb and keto/carnivore as there can be a big difference between the two. In one you can get a sufficient amount of easily available glucose from foods while in the other you do not.
I think there needs to be a distinction drawn between low carb and keto/carnivore as there can be a big difference between the two. In one you can get a sufficient amount of easily available glucose from foods while in the other you do not.
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"I think glyphosate (and other industrial pollutants like phthalates) may make us more sensitive than we otherwise would be, though. I was raised on a farm. My family has farmed glutenous grains for hundreds of years. But now, starting with my parents generation, many of us have celiac disease and other serious gut disorders. It doesn’t make sense we’d react so badly to our ancestral food, right? My grandparents were fine, but when they were growing up all farming was organic. The glyphosate started with my parents generation." @puddleduck
Not sure if you have seen this article? I've heard of the works of S. Seneff but this is the first paper of hers I have read. (It's funny how many times we get side-tracked from the original topic)
Glyphosate, pathways to modern diseases II: Celiac sprue and gluten intolerance
"I think glyphosate (and other industrial pollutants like phthalates) may make us more sensitive than we otherwise would be, though. I was raised on a farm. My family has farmed glutenous grains for hundreds of years. But now, starting with my parents generation, many of us have celiac disease and other serious gut disorders. It doesn’t make sense we’d react so badly to our ancestral food, right? My grandparents were fine, but when they were growing up all farming was organic. The glyphosate started with my parents generation." @puddleduck
Not sure if you have seen this article? I've heard of the works of S. Seneff but this is the first paper of hers I have read. (It's funny how many times we get side-tracked from the original topic)
Glyphosate, pathways to modern diseases II: Celiac sprue and gluten intolerance
"Grant even stated removing onion powder from his diet helped his eyesight which is just another example of plant foods in general causing issues"
Some have suggested that this may have been a molybdenum deficiency.
"With that said it's not JUST plant foods either as I have the most dramatic reaction (above all other foods) to dairy proteins. Skim milk, whey protein, casein protein, greek yogurt, cheese, etc. all cause my spine to feel stiff, cystic acne, stuffy nose, dandruff, and just a general feeling of tiredness. However cream/butter cause very little issues."
Both cream and butter have little to no casein or lactose. Is it possible you have lactose intolerance?
"Grant even stated removing onion powder from his diet helped his eyesight which is just another example of plant foods in general causing issues"
Some have suggested that this may have been a molybdenum deficiency.
"With that said it's not JUST plant foods either as I have the most dramatic reaction (above all other foods) to dairy proteins. Skim milk, whey protein, casein protein, greek yogurt, cheese, etc. all cause my spine to feel stiff, cystic acne, stuffy nose, dandruff, and just a general feeling of tiredness. However cream/butter cause very little issues."
Both cream and butter have little to no casein or lactose. Is it possible you have lactose intolerance?
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@pattycake I wonder how can someone have issues with whey protein. If it's really high quality instant isolate there is no casein, no lactose, no fat. Just easily digesting proteins. The problems with many protein powders are other things in it. I drink pure whey protein from cows milk and have no issues with it. Now I am trying goat milk again(because I feel like I need good source of calcium) but it has many more good things in it. If I will have issues with lactose from drinking like 500-1000ml a day I will be making kefir with kefir grains again.. I would say if someone has issues with dairy should try real goat kefir where is no lactose and the caseine is already "predigested". I don't suggest it for people who just started with vit A detox, but I am on low A diet for 4 years and this 500-1000ml of goat milk is/will be my only source of vit A... Will take it with good dose of vit K2 in hope to remineralize my teeth, spine etc..
@pattycake I wonder how can someone have issues with whey protein. If it's really high quality instant isolate there is no casein, no lactose, no fat. Just easily digesting proteins. The problems with many protein powders are other things in it. I drink pure whey protein from cows milk and have no issues with it. Now I am trying goat milk again(because I feel like I need good source of calcium) but it has many more good things in it. If I will have issues with lactose from drinking like 500-1000ml a day I will be making kefir with kefir grains again.. I would say if someone has issues with dairy should try real goat kefir where is no lactose and the caseine is already "predigested". I don't suggest it for people who just started with vit A detox, but I am on low A diet for 4 years and this 500-1000ml of goat milk is/will be my only source of vit A... Will take it with good dose of vit K2 in hope to remineralize my teeth, spine etc..
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@puddleduck I am, as a result of feeling soooooo much better with omega-6 oils, starting to feel like you do, that even being vegan can be healthy if done "correctly". This is a major shift for me coming from an animal meat heavy diet for 20+ years. I think some meats and some fats can be inflammatory for some people. For instance, coming from keto, I should feel like coconut oil is good and healthy but for me personally I don't feel good on coconut oil. I also think some carbs (especially refined) are inflammatory and not good for some people, as I know they aren't for me personally. I could probably do well on a vegan diet that excluded coconut oil and refined carbs. I'm not so sure anymore that lots of factory farmed meats are good but I do think organic meats are a good health promoting food.
@jessica2 What do you propose is the correct way to do veganism or vegetarianism?
@puddleduck I am, as a result of feeling soooooo much better with omega-6 oils, starting to feel like you do, that even being vegan can be healthy if done "correctly". This is a major shift for me coming from an animal meat heavy diet for 20+ years. I think some meats and some fats can be inflammatory for some people. For instance, coming from keto, I should feel like coconut oil is good and healthy but for me personally I don't feel good on coconut oil. I also think some carbs (especially refined) are inflammatory and not good for some people, as I know they aren't for me personally. I could probably do well on a vegan diet that excluded coconut oil and refined carbs. I'm not so sure anymore that lots of factory farmed meats are good but I do think organic meats are a good health promoting food.
@jessica2 What do you propose is the correct way to do veganism or vegetarianism?
I think good vegetarian diet = good quality goat/sheep dairy products, eggs with whole plant foods(low in high beta carotene foods or crazy intake of high oxalate foods) looks like ideal diet. I think most people who were healthy to old age had diet like that. They were eating mostly plants, but had also some chickens and some goat for eggs and dairy. That looks much more natural to me than eating daily 1kg of red meat with organ meats etc.. Omg I would love to live and work on some organic farm in the middle of nowhere in nature..
I think good vegetarian diet = good quality goat/sheep dairy products, eggs with whole plant foods(low in high beta carotene foods or crazy intake of high oxalate foods) looks like ideal diet. I think most people who were healthy to old age had diet like that. They were eating mostly plants, but had also some chickens and some goat for eggs and dairy. That looks much more natural to me than eating daily 1kg of red meat with organ meats etc.. Omg I would love to live and work on some organic farm in the middle of nowhere in nature..
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If you were to add something to Jiri's idea it might be that people would be eating a bland carb of some type and meaty bone broth soup many nights and pork products in their lives such as lard and cured meats that keep. Fish once a week. Maybe you could call it semi-veg ;). It does appear that my old-world ancestors went out of their way to serve meat to the family once a day.
I can totally see how eating animal foods helps survival. Think of it this way, perhaps eating animal foods is a way of using animals almost as a filter between you and toxic nature. Animals are a nutrition sink, a machine that collects nutrition from the earth, (often grass) filters it and stores it. Eating liver however might be skirting some of the benefits of this filter system. Young liver is probably safer than old liver. Does carnivore go farther than is needed though? I think so.
Mixed farming of both animal and plant is much more successful than some sort of theoretical vegan farm. I would hate to try to grow enough vegetables/fruits for a family without the benefit of animals on the property turning grass into fertile soil and providing strength to the farmer with their high-nutrition foods. Once a vegan told me she made carrot juice daily and I asked her if she knew how hard I would have to work to make carrot juice daily for my family! Carrots are actually quite hard to grow (at least around here). Lots of death in a carrot field too. You can't have those bunnies, NOPE. So, you grow all your carrots for the year, pick them at once in fall, store them in your cellar or fridge (just think how many crates of carrots would need to be stored! Then, you squeeze out the juice and throw out the slurry! OMG so wasteful. You don't even have chickens to eat the slurry that you don't want. Veganism does makes more sense in climates where you can farm all year. In the north a human needs to figure out how to live on grass, because in many months that is all there is. And that means animals.
If you were to add something to Jiri's idea it might be that people would be eating a bland carb of some type and meaty bone broth soup many nights and pork products in their lives such as lard and cured meats that keep. Fish once a week. Maybe you could call it semi-veg ;). It does appear that my old-world ancestors went out of their way to serve meat to the family once a day.
I can totally see how eating animal foods helps survival. Think of it this way, perhaps eating animal foods is a way of using animals almost as a filter between you and toxic nature. Animals are a nutrition sink, a machine that collects nutrition from the earth, (often grass) filters it and stores it. Eating liver however might be skirting some of the benefits of this filter system. Young liver is probably safer than old liver. Does carnivore go farther than is needed though? I think so.
Mixed farming of both animal and plant is much more successful than some sort of theoretical vegan farm. I would hate to try to grow enough vegetables/fruits for a family without the benefit of animals on the property turning grass into fertile soil and providing strength to the farmer with their high-nutrition foods. Once a vegan told me she made carrot juice daily and I asked her if she knew how hard I would have to work to make carrot juice daily for my family! Carrots are actually quite hard to grow (at least around here). Lots of death in a carrot field too. You can't have those bunnies, NOPE. So, you grow all your carrots for the year, pick them at once in fall, store them in your cellar or fridge (just think how many crates of carrots would need to be stored! Then, you squeeze out the juice and throw out the slurry! OMG so wasteful. You don't even have chickens to eat the slurry that you don't want. Veganism does makes more sense in climates where you can farm all year. In the north a human needs to figure out how to live on grass, because in many months that is all there is. And that means animals.
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I think good vegetarian diet = good quality goat/sheep dairy products, eggs with whole plant foods(low in high beta carotene foods or crazy intake of high oxalate foods) looks like ideal diet. I think most people who were healthy to old age had diet like that. They were eating mostly plants, but had also some chickens and some goat for eggs and dairy. That looks much more natural to me than eating daily 1kg of red meat with organ meats etc.. Omg I would love to live and work on some organic farm in the middle of nowhere in nature..
Depends on what you mean "natural" - since we only had farming for maximum 10.000years or so, most of the history of humanity the diet you described was just not an option. And adding in hens and goats we go to a couple of thousand years. I'm not saying all should eat paleo or this or that is the best diet but it's hard to find it more natural as it is a modern possibility and even modernly only possible in some parts of the world until maybe 50 years ago maximum.
I think good vegetarian diet = good quality goat/sheep dairy products, eggs with whole plant foods(low in high beta carotene foods or crazy intake of high oxalate foods) looks like ideal diet. I think most people who were healthy to old age had diet like that. They were eating mostly plants, but had also some chickens and some goat for eggs and dairy. That looks much more natural to me than eating daily 1kg of red meat with organ meats etc.. Omg I would love to live and work on some organic farm in the middle of nowhere in nature..
Depends on what you mean "natural" - since we only had farming for maximum 10.000years or so, most of the history of humanity the diet you described was just not an option. And adding in hens and goats we go to a couple of thousand years. I'm not saying all should eat paleo or this or that is the best diet but it's hard to find it more natural as it is a modern possibility and even modernly only possible in some parts of the world until maybe 50 years ago maximum.
The native Americans in my area of the world didn't have the wheel and only had a few crops, but I suppose in a way they were still "farming" the earth. They knew all the different foods that nature provided. They knew how to prepare them and keep some for the long winter. They knew the best place to live for each part of the year. They would burn off areas to coax certain things to happen. When they planted seeds they knew to fertilize the ground and interplant. They knew what season to eat what animals and fish at their best time to be eaten. Farming is just a hop, skip and a jump from this lifestyle. True, they didn't stay in one place and they let nature take care of the animals, unlike Scandinavian herders or European farmers. But they husbanded their lands. And their diet was omnivorous.
I'll never understand how they lived without beasts of burden though! I suppose one answer is canoes.
I also think this way of life takes a LOT of room per each human being. When population rises, I think so does the farm because it is a much more intensive way to create food. This is probably why we hear a lot about how tribes warred with each other. There is a lake near us with a long name that tells a story about how resources like this would actually need treaties between tribes. It is said the name of the lake means "you fish on your side, we fish on our side, and no one fishes in the middle"
The native Americans in my area of the world didn't have the wheel and only had a few crops, but I suppose in a way they were still "farming" the earth. They knew all the different foods that nature provided. They knew how to prepare them and keep some for the long winter. They knew the best place to live for each part of the year. They would burn off areas to coax certain things to happen. When they planted seeds they knew to fertilize the ground and interplant. They knew what season to eat what animals and fish at their best time to be eaten. Farming is just a hop, skip and a jump from this lifestyle. True, they didn't stay in one place and they let nature take care of the animals, unlike Scandinavian herders or European farmers. But they husbanded their lands. And their diet was omnivorous.
I'll never understand how they lived without beasts of burden though! I suppose one answer is canoes.
I also think this way of life takes a LOT of room per each human being. When population rises, I think so does the farm because it is a much more intensive way to create food. This is probably why we hear a lot about how tribes warred with each other. There is a lake near us with a long name that tells a story about how resources like this would actually need treaties between tribes. It is said the name of the lake means "you fish on your side, we fish on our side, and no one fishes in the middle"
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@lil-chick Native Americans also harvested acorns. I read about how they processed them to get rid of tannins. They'd put them in porous bags and weigh them down in streams for a few days to leach out the tannins before they would dry them out and grind them for flour.
I think they would also pee in a hole and soak them in that too!
@lil-chick Native Americans also harvested acorns. I read about how they processed them to get rid of tannins. They'd put them in porous bags and weigh them down in streams for a few days to leach out the tannins before they would dry them out and grind them for flour.
I think they would also pee in a hole and soak them in that too!
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