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chickadee's rough start, and hopeful recovery
@wavygravygadzooks The nutritionist didn't have an answer for my phosphorous being ridiculously high, he just said that's a big problem and could be associated with excess consumption (no way for me), but probably reflected more about my metabolism and parathyroid. Well, a few weeks later, I looked it up and found that taking the hair sample from the nether regions often shows an elevated phosphorous! So I didn't want to mess with the hair on my head, but apparently the location of the sample makes a difference...
Re: why my calcium and magnesium were high, he said that it's necessary to re-test to see what the trend is. He said it takes about two months for the minerals to show up in the connective tissue (which hair is a type of), as it is a "dump site" for what is not used in the process of digestion, absorption, cellular functions, creation of liver enzymes, etc. But he explained that the hair may be depositing too much even if the bones, etc. aren't getting enough, so it doesn't indicate overall mineral status as a straightforward measure. He said that excess supplementation could contribute to the high levels of calcium. We reviewed my supplement list, but there was no calcium. So he said the calcium imbalance indicates something about my metabolism. Re: magnesium, I was using magnesium spray (MgCl) and Epsom salt, and he recommended that I moderate my use, but it wasn't too concerning since it wasn't at a very high level and that the magnesium and calcium were at a good ratio. I suggested that I was craving the magnesium to balance my calcium excess and he agreed it was possible.
He said that my sodium and potassium being on the low end is a reflection of underactive, weakened adrenals. Of course, his recommendation was to boost that with supplementation. I'm kind of relieved that I ran out of money to give him at that point because I was totally going to blast myself with some ginseng. He said that sodium and potassium move pretty quickly and can change within a month based on stress levels, etc. He said our body's metabolism and absorption are what's reflected in the HMTA and it's not always about intake. He had concerns about my overall mineral levels being on the low side and suggested I was experiencing malabsorption. So then I followed his advice and began a "therapeutic trial" of a high level of Betaine HCl + digestive enzymes at my meals. I never once experienced burning in my stomach, the absence of which he said indicated low stomach acid.
I stopped the enzymes about a month ago because I was exhausted after eating and thankfully my naturopath caught on to that pattern and told me to stop everything. But, she had me start taking this "Ion Gut Support" supplement. I can't recommend it, though I sang its praises for a month. At first, I was grateful and was convinced that's what enabled me to put on 10 pounds after being emaciated by Covid and the aftereffects. But I truly think just stopping all the junk I was taking is more of what helped me heal. Some people think the Ion Gut actually allows gut infections to proliferate, or it may even contain pathogens. Who the heck knows.
After jumping down the rabbit hole the last week or so and watching some of Garrett Smith's videos, I am ready to blame vitamin D3 supplementation for my high level of calcium. I had been taking D3 at high levels for over 5 years. I have officially stopped all of my supplements, except for B12 at the moment, because I have macrocytic / pernicious anemia. I inject methylated B12 weekly and orally supplement adenosyl B12 every day or two. Not sure if that's helping or hurting. I know my labwork (RBC, MCV, MCH) looks better when I use B12.
I had tried taking some natto powder for K2 to help me detox / decalcify from all the D3. But it gives me palpitations, so I stopped. I'm not totally sure about what I'm doing with supplements anymore. I ordered some niacinamide and folinic acid (calcium folinate), but not sure if I'll take them. I think I was possibly over-methlyated taking a B complex (Seeking Health) on top of the injections. I am really just trying to follow my instincts, which is tough cuz I've ignored them for so long. But I do think I'll get there.
It makes me wonder if maybe Covid would've gone better for me if I had done nothing! One thing I have in my arsenal for preventing sickness is this "Mycoshield" spray, but I don't even know anymore! I mean, wow, after all this research and reflecting, even vitamin C supplementation seems to be harmful... like what in the world is going on? What do we do when we're sick to get better? Just lay there? haha. I mean, I heard this video on Children's Health Defense about giving kids massive doses of vitamin C (at certain intervals) to get over whooping cough. That's for parents who want to avoid vaccines. So I don't know, maybe there are specific applications for synthetic vitamins.
All in all, I feel pretty good in the last week or so. I think just cutting out supplements and limiting dietary vitamin A is making a difference already. I have pretty good energy and I feel more calm than I have for a while.
@saraleah11 Thank you for the warm welcome and sharing your experience. I'm glad that you found a way of eating that helps you feel good! Interesting stuff from Richard Johnson. So funny cuz I was just watching Garrett Smith saying how awful keto is, etc. I think it may be individual, but I really don't know. If I even take a grain or a bean in my mouth, my body starts saying heyyy stop that. Not sure if that will ever change and/or maybe I have a case of candida and/or SIBO? But I have gotten comfortable enough with my body's feedback to spit something out if/when it doesn't taste right when it touches my tongue. I don't always catch what will bother me, but I do seem to catch some of it.
I have avoided dairy for a long time, but recently am adding back in some organic heavy cream. I am craving the fat so much! It hits on a totally different thing than coconut milk, which tastes so unsatisfying in comparison, and makes me feel ill almost immediately. I know dairy turns into an opiate in the gut... maybe that's why my mood has improved. And I know that Garrett Smith and others talk about the "duration paradox" so maybe in a few weeks, I'll be suffering and wishing I didn't have dairy. But for now, I am feeling really satisfied with some dairy back in my diet and surprised it doesn't seem to be bugging my GI.
I experimented with a fried pastured organic egg and suffered for like 36 hours: immediate headache, reflux, dizziness, itchy skin, just plain old clumsiness really. I feel like a lack of coordination is one of my chief complaints that's hard to recognize sometimes. Like I've never been coordinated enough to keep up in a game of volleyball, but I am strong and pretty fast. I hope that aspect of my brain and nervous system improves as I continue to figure this all out and take action.
@wavygravygadzooks I am interested in continuing the conversation about what I believe, but I don't want to dedicate much space here to it. I am thankful for this forum and the transparency with which we share our experiences and beliefs. And I believe that a dogmatic style of thinking is often more damaging than one particular belief or the other. If the scientific method can produce opposing results, then a consensus will be tough to reach, if not impossible. The natural outcome is just as bad as the Crusades: "experts" forcing their scientific belief upon unsuspecting humanity. And isn't that how we all got here? By realizing that we were duped into believing all of our food is safe and all of our doctors know best.
By the way, I don't think the scarlet king snake has red and yellow stripes that touch each other, and it doesn't have a black head like the coral snake. I personally wouldn't touch any of them! My son took the poisonous mushroom test and got an 80% whereas I got a 60%. I think kids often have better instincts because they haven't been subjected to as much programming, but of course they're also easily manipulated. Apparently we are too. Which foods look scary to you? Eggplants freak me out.
Is it well-accepted within the "Vitamin" A detoxification community that PUFAs must be avoided? Same question for nightshades.
Is there like a "master list" of foods and the reasons to avoid them? I.e.:
- No foods (e.g. sweet potatoes and liver, high in Vitamin A; pears, high in aldehydes),
- Yes foods (e.g. beef, rice, beans, poultry - depending on individual tolerance of course), and
- TBD foods (dairy, other fruits/veg that some say are OK but others say no way / e.g. eggs, high in lutein).
It might be cool to start a Google Sheet that everyone can view with a discussion to update/edit the list as we figure out more. Of course, there would be a disclaimer that "Yes" foods do not work for everyone, etc. It might even be helpful to cite which people say "Yes" and "No" to specific foods, e.g.:
TBD Eggs: contain vitamin A (high in lutein and zeaxanthin)
Yes: Eric Levinson / No: Garrett Smith
@wavygravygadzooks I appreciate your posts, helped open my eyes to why I couldn't get better, and all the resources you mentioned have helped. Had to keep an open mind. Saw few carnivores here, then though could it be because they feel well? I never would have believed that foods of plant origin could be the destructive little terrors that they have become to me. I totally agree that once the toxic reaction begins, it may take years to clear, if ever.
And @chickadee one thing that stood out to me on the food list you shared were some high oxalate foods, spinach and chard. Even if they are a small part of the diet, might be worth a try giving up to see if it helps. I know it has been mentioned in this group that oxalate is not an issue once you detox from A but might be worth considering. The worst tinnitus I ever experienced was after 5 yrs vegan, heavy on the chard and spinach. I live with total peace and quiet in my head now, worth it.
All of you thank you for being here and for the fact that we can be an open discussion, help each other.
Hi @chickadee I reread your food list and saw that you have already considered oxalate toxicity sorry I hadn't noticed that first read. Grant has mentioned cashews are a problem, for detox, as may be hemp. And I am never sure about the purity of oils so don't consume any of them any more especially coconut oil. I can't manage ghee or cream either. Amazing what you find out going on just meat adding things one at a time. Max is right too many foods, too hard to find the problem ones.
I'm sure its hard enough as a diabetic, it was hard enough just having the detox that started a few weeks into this program. I know Grant has said A toxicity is a probable cause of diabetes, hopefully you can heal from toxicity losing blood sugar control.
My week-long dairy experiment of 2022 was a failure, and is now over. I noticed when I went to the gym this weekend that I felt heaviness in my lungs when I was on the treadmill. I thought, maybe I'm getting sick. Well, I don't seem to be, so I have to admit that my body still can't handle it. I've also been breaking out a bit on my face, and when I shaved my legs yesterday, I experienced razor burn for the first time in a long time. So, I'm feeling disappointed.
It was 2010 when I first started noticing issues with dairy. I read an article that recommended eliminating it for 30 days. I was pregnant at the time, and when I went to try it again, I became violently ill. I'm not saying that dairy was good for me prior to the elimination, but I do think sometimes when we cut things out, we become hypersensitive to them when we try them again. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, or what the biochemical mechanism would be.
I was craving it last week because I cut out store-bought hemp milk since it has Vitamin A palmitate. I had been using that to make my organic decaf in the morning. So cream seemed like a great way to have non-black coffee. Well, as much as I like the decaf, I'm just going to cut it out. So yesterday, I tried having some plain hot water. I had kidney pain all day! Not sure what that's all about, but it's the only thing I can think of that was different.
I'm feeling frustrated because I brought up the possibility of Vitamin A toxicity to my naturopath. I explained my reasoning without going down the rabbit hole, i.e. my massive supplementation during Covid, my yellow color for a month... She said it's very unlikely and there are things higher up on her list for me. What are they? Tough to get a straight answer except to take a $300 stool test and/or a $400 organic acids test She said my liver is fine, after all my enzymes are within the normal range. I know better. I mean, it hurts when I touch it, that's not normal right?
I also discovered this week just how much vitamin A is in lettuce. Wow, it's a lot. So here I was thinking that it wasn't as bad because it's not orange, but no, it's pretty bad. I was looking forward to a more diverse diet after being stuck eating like 6 things post-Covid. But now I'm just not sure.
@saraleah11, I do think hemp is an issue. I made some homemade hemp milk with some fresh seeds and became bloated, gassy, sneezy, and cranky. Yuck! I wish I could just eat some chicken and/or turkey for a while, even just a week would be great. But it sits like a rock in my stomach. That's why I'd been eating lettuce, because it helps the meat digest better. Last night, I tried chicken with peas - I know that have vitamin A, but not as much as lettuce. Well, that also just sat like a rock in my stomach, and then I experienced bile dumping I believe, because I had a bm right away, even though I had one earlier.
I'm planning to meet with another doctor next week who is also a naturopath, but has some osteopathic training as well. No idea if he'll be helpful or open to my ideas about vitamin A, but it's definitely time for a second opinion. My current doc is obviously getting frustrated with my lack of progress - or backwards progress on her supplement regimen - and is now alluding to emotional problems as the cause of my malaise. And that frustrates me, because I am usually aware of when my emotions are getting in the way, but I'm in the best place emotionally I've been probably ever. So, by her logic, I should be in the best place physically ever. It's because she's stumped. And I've heard that from about half a dozen doctors in my life, so I get it. They look at me and don't see a sick person, so they think it's my mind. Whatever, people. I'm done with them.
Oh also, I've decided today to be more than an experiment to myself. I love recording data and finding patterns. But now, when I wake up, I'm not going to have a hot beverage. So, I have to find something else to look forward to, because something about that hot beverage in the morning was really doing it for me. Many frigid mornings, I'd go outside barefoot holding a warm mug, sipping away and feeling jolly. So this morning I just went out sans mug and checked out the birds. Then I came in and did a little qi gong. I think qi gong is really helpful for me because of the deep breathing and range of motion movements. So I'm planning to make it part of my morning routine. I just want to enjoy as many moments as I can, and appreciate that the changes I'm making are difficult, but in the process I am becoming a more resilient human being.
In the U.K. we have nutritional therapists usually, rather than naturopaths. I know two who work with vA toxicity. Neither advertise it. One wrote a paper a decade ago but couldn’t get it published. Therefore don’t expect to find a naturopath who gets it as they are a rarity in my experience. I’d just (almost) finished NT training when I became vA toxic and trying to explain to my lecturers and peer group fell on deaf ears. This will be a slow spread of information. It will come out because it’s true and the truth will out, I believe.
@jaj That's really cool, I didn't know about that particular specialty! Thanks for sharing. I just looked up a couple. Are there any clues that might help me discern who is working with Vitamin A toxicity? E.g. one therapist's website talks about "time-tested ancestral dietary wisdom," and that sounds potentially Weston A. Price-y to me...
I agree with what you said about this being a slow spread of information, especially among professionals. I wonder if people (like us) who are more accepting of the idea are naturally more inclined to be skeptics or even conspiracy theorists. Personally, I was a few pages into Grant's first book when the light bulb went off. That was just by applying the logic that we can't infinitely consume a fat-soluble vitamin without consequences.
@chickadee VA toxicity is medically known, especially when there are liver problems, but I don't understand why doctors don't address it. I hope you are able to help yourself heal, reading all the entries in this discussion helps. And if you find a provider who is interested maybe they will have tips.
I already had read about hemp and avoid it, plus flax. None of the practitioners I went to when my health issues started addressed diet,except gluten sensitivity.
VA toxicity is medically known, especially when there are liver problems, but I don't understand why doctors don't address it. I hope you are able to help yourself heal, reading all the entries in this discussion helps. And if you find a provider who is interested maybe they will have tips.
I already had read about hemp and avoid it, plus flax. None of the practitioners I went to when my health issues started addressed diet,except gluten sensitivity.
@saraleah11 Thank you for your posts, sharing your experience, and your open perspective. It's funny because I went to re-read this thread yesterday and I realized that I got stuck in the weeds the last couple weeks. So I think tracing my steps back to the beginning is helpful. Could you give me examples of what you eat in a day/week?
The most frustrating part about my doctor's reaction is her complete unwillingness to listen. I don't expect her to take me at my word, but how about, "That's interesting that you believe you have Vitamin A toxicity. Which symptoms are you experiencing?" As it is, I feel completely dismissed and like there is very little actual communication in our relationship. She doesn't know what to do with me, yet she won't hear what I'm saying? Makes no sense. Needless to say, I didn't bring up the other item on my list, which was aldehydes! Her solution for me is to take 100mg glutathione daily for the rest of my life, to help me deal with multiple chemical sensitivity, etc.
(2) ensuring that the alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase systems are working effectively by avoiding foods that occupy those pathways and by getting the nutrients that support those pathways.
@wavygravygadzooks Which nutrients support the ALD / ALDH pathways? This is almost definitely a problem for me. Any clues on how to get meat moving through my stomach, since I've been relying on lettuce to fluff it up? (I think of airholes in rocks for some reason.)
You can make it as complicated as you want, but one of the many reasons the muscle meat carnivore diet works on so many levels is that it supports all your detox pathways by supplying plenty of bioavailable sulfur and the vitamins, minerals, and amino acids necessary for detox of just about everything, while simultaneously removing almost anything that can cause an inflammatory reaction.
@wavygravygadzooks Do you take any supplements? I think I have problems with sulfur and am considering trying some molybdenum. I'm not sure if it absorbs transdermally, but I am probably going to start with topical applications because my system is so sensitive. The day I tried cod liver oil, I first applied some to the skin and did have some redness. I chalked it up to the lemon extract and took it down the hatch... Was I ever wrong.
My main word of caution is to start slow because Vitamin A appears to be really caustic when it comes back out of the peripheral tissues. The fiber-pounding crowd has indicated that eating too much, too quickly, can make your symptoms worse. My experience has been that dietary fat is the biggest trigger for Vitamin A dumping, and combining fiber and fat together is usually too intense.
@wavygravygadzooks When you say start slow, what do you mean? Start slow with what? I think there's a lot of wisdom in what you've said here; reflecting on my food log, I am noticing that fat and fiber meals seem to be huge triggers for my GI flaring up. So I tried some plain oatmeal yesterday, but I'm in a world of hurt today. Do you incorporate any added fat into your diet and/or do you only have lean meat? What would you say your macros are... Are you in ketosis?
I really would like to do muscle meat-only at least for a week. I don't think I should fast because of my blood sugar instability, and bone stock makes me feel ill. (There's gotta be a reason for that by the way.) I want to get a handle on which foods are not good for me, and turkey seems to be the only thing that doesn't me cause issues.
Eric Levinson seems like yet another tool, even if he's well-meaning. He got hurt by Accutane and is therefore all too eager to paint Vitamin A as nothing but a toxin. Those videos are 90% him reading a list of complications from Vitamin A toxicity...those are not symptoms of Vitamin A consumption, but TOXICITY.
@wavygravygadzooks Do you believe vitamin A is a toxin, or a fat-soluble vitamin that is overdone?
Everybody has different tolerances, I personally eat mainly parsnips, turnips, daikon and chinese cabbage. I also peel the veggies or remove the other leaves to get rid off the pesticides.
@max-3 Do you seem to do OK with cruciferous vegetables? Not sure if you're aware, but turnips, daikon, and cabbage are all cruciferous:
http://www.orlandosportschiropractic.com/pdfs/handouts/Cruciferous_Vegetables_Nutritional_Handout.pdf
I learned the hard away about radishes. I bought some seeds for sprouting, thinking I was being a good little prepper. I had a handful of radish sprouts with chicken soup before heading out to an appointment with a long drive - most everything's far away living in the sticks. Was I miserable! Instant chest pain, which was my stomach, and I'll spare you the rest of the details. I already knew I can't have broccoli or Brussels sprouts, but I didn't realize radishes, arugula, chard, etc. are also cruciferous!
Is there a reason that you avoid berries?
@max-3 By the way, do you think you have a Mast Cell Activation disorder? My allergist suggested that might be one of my problems. My serum tryptase was normal, but she said that it's only elevated during a flare. I asked if MCAS could be diagnosed clinically. Her suggestion was to try taking fexofenadine (Allegra) and see if my symptoms decreased. The problem is that a) I'm extremely sensitive to all meds and b) I can't find any without added ingredients that are known triggers.
@chickadee I detoxed for a year on grants diet of beef, rice and beans. After a year, with my blood sugar out of control and body composition changing unacceptably, even though I was thin, I had to change. There were so many positive changes that I was stumped as to what to do. I already wasn't eating much, and exercise regularly. I went to a reduced carb diet, in a day I have beef, burger or crock pot roast, or beef breakfast sausage. An occasional lamb chop or patty. An egg 1 to 2 x weekly. A very small salad dai;y with organic iceberg, romaine, sauteed mushroom. No bagged precut salad . Rarely tuna, haddock cooked in coconut oil, turkey, chicken. Once a day a protein bar low carb like Quest. Not low A I know its bad but I don't flare up from it.
Occasional sheep milk cheese or goat cheese in the salad, again not often. Fat free low carb honey dijon dressing. Experimented with avocado, black bean, green bean, cauliflower, lentils, and other vegetables, no luck. I found through trial and error I have to eat approx 20 grams of carb or less to control my blood sugar.
@saraleah11, what was your blood sugar like when it was out of control and what is it now?