I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Dangers of CD (Chlorine Dioxide) / MMS
I’m creating this thread to help anyone that may have come from Garrett Smith’s network confused about his recent recommendation of ingesting chlorine dioxide (CD). I want you to know that CD is dangerous, it is a poison, and it can hurt you really bad.
If you are on this (Grant’s) forum because you are concerned about vitamin A, understand that it makes no sense to avoid chronic poisoning from VA only to take a toxin (CD) that causes acute poisoning. It only takes drops of this stuff to make people projectile vomit, meaning your vomit goes violently flying across the room because you are in imminent danger and your body’s getting rid of it as fast as possible.
A few members including myself voiced our concerns, which was met with deflection, intimidation tactics, veiled threats, and finally censorship - comments and accounts deleted suddenly without warning, including mine.
It is clear that he will delete any comments and accounts from people who care about you and want to warn you. I mistakenly thought his strong stance on moderating comments and accounts was to protect members from verbal abuse, spamming, etc. but it was to censor those that disagree with him to warn others.
My account was less than a month old, but his policies are set up so that I will not receive a refund. He can keep the money - it seems that’s what he really wants. I don’t care so much about the money I lost as I do about the people still on his network that had suffered so much with their health, people who have been “through the ringer”.
When I confronted Smith on how his promotion of CD contradicts his other teachings, I was met with false accusations claiming that I hadn’t read his notes. But I was up until the wee hours of the morning the night before reading his notes and the book he recommended. I couldn’t sleep because I was so troubled that he would promote this poison!
After demonstrating that I did read the notes, he could find no way to refute my arguments, nor the arguments of others, so he censored them. This is a red flag!
Another person was so troubled, he had to update a review he made on Amazon and withdraw his recommendation of Smith’s course. You can see the revised review here. This man was so courteous, so respectful, so kind to Garrett even after his comments were getting deleted left and right. He even thanked Garrett and wished him and everyone else good health. Smith abused his power in deleting this man’s comments because this man did nothing to merit it.
This is a brief overview of what happened in the last 48 hours. When I have more time in the weeks to come, I plan to leave more comments to let people know the danger of CD and the arguments against it that were ignored and censored by Smith.
The only thing I know about MMS is that wherever the topic is brought up on the internet people either love it or hate it and no in-between!
A while back, Tim suggested use of hydrogen peroxide in the mouth. It worked great on his gum and teeth issues. For me, it made my entire mouth sore and worse.
I suppose there are some parallels with that story, if you think about it.
We went into a long discussion on another thread about how sometimes the use of poisons is helpful (most meds are poisons, herbs are plant poisons etc).
It isn't helpful to censor, I hope Smith changes his mind about that.
Angela, thank you and thank you again for your write-up on this important subject. I read your exchange with @wavygravygadzooks (thanks, good stuff, both!!) and the Amazon review by Ben D. As Grant and Josh (G.) know I've had my doubts about Smith from the get-go after listening to a couple of podcast interviews. My emotional and psychological instincts said there's something wrong with this guy. He's got the body-language of a bully, first clue. Initially, I thought he was just an opportunist, hopping on the retinoid-toxicity bandwagon for his own benefit; as a niche thing he could sort of 'lead'.
But then I ran across a post by a fellow who had been injured by following a recommendation of Smith's prior to Smith's involvement with retinoids. It was some veterinary product the kid had to order from Europe if I recall. Smith basically blew him off. Pretty sure I commented on it over here. It fit the profile and then I wondered if he'd ever apologized to anyone in particular regarding having recommended "Vitamin A" as a supplement. Maybe he did, I didn't track his schtick much, mostly running across his changing protocol in comments. I thought the Zeolite thing was pretty dicey. Anyway, the fact that anyone can find just about anything they're looking for on PubMed, and then adding those 'finds' to a nicely-formatted site, tends to make the generation of false-authority a piece of cake.
I noticed the other day that Josh is heavily promoting Smith on his substack blog. Hopefully, he's still tuned-in over here and will reconsider his advocacy, based on all of the evidence that Smith is just a bad-egg bowling-for-dollars.
Keep up the good work and best of health to you!
I could swear I read on his site, maybe a year ago, that he told people not to take MMS because it was a poison. It's so odd, he tells people that iodine is a poison, that vitamin D is a poison, to eat lots of beans (with all their antinutrients, those messed me up), but MMS is just fine.
I took MMS about a decade ago for a few months. My anecdotal experience is one of "meh". It didn't make me feel good or bad. The worst part for me was the chlorine taste after a while.
I can see in this blogs the way you can argue and mostly is all about putting forward your mere opinions.
Smith is making a living out of this subjects, so I think he deserves some respect for his work.
I think he might be wrong on some reasoning, but I bet he is honest an has good intention. CDS is a poison as much as any other drugs but is safe within a margin dose and is less toxic than bleach (industry use it on fresh meat and other products because it's safe).
About deleted comments, sometimes we are inadvertently trolling. Think about it.
Be good.
I'm sorry you had your account deleted and I applaud you for speaking out against the CDS/MMS.
Smith has threatened me several times in private with the chat function on his site, basically telling me there is no right to "free speech" on his site and that he can remove anybody for any reason at any time. He has little tolerance for people contradicting him over there.
Maybe this CDS/MMS thing will finally open people's eyes to the assessment I've been making of Smith all along as a purveyor of pseudoscience and someone with poor judgement of what constitutes scientific evidence.
Are you trolling? Sure sounds like it.
Did you notice the part of your comment where you said "Smith is making a living out of his subjects"?! lol That means he is profiting monetarily from his activities, whereas we here on this forum are not making any money from our discussions.
The source of his CDS/MMS information is a free e-book by a nobody! That is not a credible source of anything, and especially not health advice, particularly in the use of a substance with a very low threshold for acute toxicity.
Do you really think that my comment looks like trolling? This is my answer:
https://edu.gcfglobal.org/en/thenow/what-is-trolling/1/
Maybe I can be considered a troll in here. I'd rather ask for people to search and read about CDS. I'm not against anyone at all, but I can detect some kind of rancor toward Smith in some posts. There is no reason to knock at Smith's door just for messing with him. If someone thinks he is damaging people's health, that is the police for.
Smith has a channel and I want everybody to have a channel so all opinions can be known (with their arguments and presumable proofs).
Did you notice the part of your comment where you said "Smith is making a living out of his subjects"?! lol That means he is profiting monetarily from his activities, whereas we here on this forum are not making any money from our discussions.
The source of his CDS/MMS information is a free e-book "by a nobody!" That is not a credible source of anything, and especially not health advice, particularly in the use of a substance with a very low threshold for acute toxicity.
About the 1st paragraph: I don't see profiting should be a bad thing per se. We are here because we don't need to.
On the 2nd (bold): Books don't write themselves, but you can search for some better books. During c19 false pandemic some official peer reviewed papers on CDS has been done in South América. Go for it!
Thank you.
Hi @lil-chick!
It’s interesting you brought up poisons being used for medicinal purposes. When I confronted Smith on CD being a poison based on his own teachings, he didn’t take the “medicinal poison” stance but instead tried to deny it was toxic.
Recognizing and avoiding poisons was a huge part of what he taught. He’s even building what he calls a “meme army” to generate memes on VA being poison. So on the one hand he wants people to become aware that VA is a poison, but on the other hand he’s deleting comments that expose CD as a known poison!
My concern is not so much that people will knowingly take a poison for medicinal purposes, but that people are being misled into thinking that CD is not a poison at all.
Smith’s source material is Brian Stone’s Simple Molecular Medicines, a book which leads people to mistake symptoms of poisoning as “Herxheimer”. On pg. 43 the author talks about a “healthy-level” of nausea and diarrhea. Readers are encouraged to “push forward” and keep poisoning themselves because they are led to believe it’s “pathogen die-off”. If they see what looks like worms they are told it’s parasites, not damaged mucous membranes from intestinal corrosion.
In other words, all the signs that CD is causing injury and harm to the individual are reinterpreted as benefits and healing! Instead of being alarmed to discontinue use, people are told to continue - they will feel better long-term once their “healing” is complete.
Most people who choose to get drunk on alcohol and end up nauseous and vomiting know that alcohol is an intoxicant. But Smith is misleading people on the toxicity of CD, calling it safe and his own symptoms of poisoning “retracing episodes”.
He recommends daily ingestion of “unactivated MMS” - sodium chlorite mixed with water. Here is a 2021 safety data sheet (SDS) for a 7.5% Sodium Chlorite Solution, the weakest I could find. Under section 11.Toxological Information it states, “May be harmful if swallowed. Symptoms may include pain, headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, drowsiness and other central nervous systems effects.” Long-term exposure “may cause chronic effects... symptoms may include methemoglobinemia (causes bluish discoloration of the skin and mucous membranes). Will irritate and may cause corrosion of the gastrointestinal tract.”
Safety Data Sheets are important because they are the company’s legal proof that they warned end users of the dangers of their product and told them not to use it in a manner that would expose them to harm.
In contrast, Smith is telling people to use a toxic product in a way that would expose them to harm and to misinterpret the signs of that toxicity as “herxheimer”, “retracing”, or “bile dumping”.