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Dietary fiber for vitamin A detoxing
Found this paper just now:
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/129/12/2170/4722118
Some Dietary Fibers Reduce the Absorption of Carotenoids in Women
Judith Riedl, Jakob Linseisen, Jürgen Hoffmann, Günther Wolfram
The Journal of Nutrition, Volume 129, Issue 12, December 1999, Pages 2170–2176
Abstract
Dietary fiber may be partly responsible for the lower bioavailability of carotenoids from food than from purified supplements. Due to the lack of detailed information available, we investigated the effects of different kinds of dietary fiber on the absorption of carotenoids and α-tocopherol. Six healthy young women received an antioxidant mixture consisting of β-carotene, lycopene, lutein, canthaxanthin and α-tocopherol together with a standard meal. The meal did not contain additional dietary fiber or was enriched with pectin, guar, alginate, cellulose or wheat bran (0.15 g · kg body weight-1). The increases in plasma carotenoid and α-tocopherol concentrations were followed over 24 h, and the areas-under-curves (AUC24h) were calculated. The mean AUC24h of β-carotene was significantly (P < 0.05) reduced by the water-soluble fibers pectin, guar and alginate with a mean decrease of 33–43%. All tested fibers significantly reduced the AUC24h of lycopene and lutein by 40–74% (P < 0.05). The dietary fiber effect on the AUC24h of canthaxanthin was almost significant (P = 0.059) and there was no effect on the AUC24h of α-tocopherol. We conclude that the bioavailability of β-carotene, lycopene and lutein given within a mixed supplement is markedly reduced by different kinds of dietary fiber.
I’m a big fan of a higher fibre diet. I think it does many things to help vA detox. Less absorption, more excretion. Also I find the data on fibre and improved gut microbiome very compelling. I follow the work of Tim Spector and others. If the gut microbiome is in dysbiosis then this can mess up the functioning of the body in many ways, including vA detox. I personally see a higher fibre diet as a way towards health. It makes sense to me.
I am lowering my fiber consumption, drastically. Grant was/is eating about 1 cup of black beans (16-17 g/fiber) a day and he had very little detox setbacks or dumps. I tried higher fiber, and it wasn't that I was having detox symptoms, just big swollen guts and gas. During my high fiber experiment (which was at least 7 months) I had a whole body thermogram, and one of the findings of that test was very swollen intestines ( I don't remember exact language). I just don't think loading up with fiber is the answer, it's too hard on the guts, at least for me. I've been eating 15gm a day or less for the past few weeks and so far so good. I think supplementing fiber is especially bad.
I also read this book:
and he makes a pretty good case that fiber is not something humans should be eating a lot of. So, on to the low fiber experiment!
@linusennis interesting. There’s always an opposing opinion and it’s important to consider both angles. I’m on Dr Smiths network and some people there do badly with too much soluble fibre but much better with insoluble fibre. I don’t know if this applies to you. I’m guessing it’s an interaction with the gut microbiome that causes issues for some people. I know that people with some types of SIBO have to be careful with fibre. What’s right for one person is not right for another.
I've been eating oatmeal with raisins or peeled apple every day now for a bit over a week and I definitely feel some bloating and gut soreness. However, I also feel like my colon is way less toxic and cleaner. It definitely feels like an overhaul.
I want to re-iterate that for whatever reason I think that B12/complex affected my urine to make it less toxic somehow. Now B12 does have to do with making new blood cells. And I do think that at the same time, the BM's got more toxic.
It could be that fiber is a tool for getting detoxed and doesn't have to be at such a high level FOREVER, or be used by people who aren't toxic.
Fiber is an #1 ticket to SIBO.
Hi Jenny,
Yes I'm over there too (Caroline) and Dr. Smith has a lot of great info that has helped me tremendously. But, I never had any gut problems til I started with the fiber and I've done both soluble and insoluble. it wasn't that the fiber caused me detox symptoms, because I really don't get those at all. I just get big, fat, gassy, inflamed guts which i never had before. I know it may be a microbiome problem and I have also done the probiotic experiments. One then the other, then both, still big fat inflamed guts. So it must be something I'm eating. I think it's the fiber. The only thing that stopped the bloating/distension/gas was just stopping the fiber. I didn't want to post anything over there because its really not the place and I'm not questioning Dr. Smith as he has made some amazing connections and is putting things together way better than I ever could. Dr. Smith says if something isn't working, then stop doing it.
Grant did this on what would be considered a low fiber diet (RDA is around 30-35gm), so I think it is a very reasonable thing to try after having tried high fiber (which wasn't all that high, closer to the 30-35gm/day). I know Dr. Smith would probably say i'm starving my dysbiosis, but i'm still getting what I think is enough fiber (10-15gm/day) to feed good bacteria, and who is to say that all this fiber only feeds good bacteria? i think it feeds the bad stuff too, if not more. If I detox slower, so be it, but fiber never seemed to cause detox setbacks for me anyway, just the buddah belly. So was the fiber really helping me detox? I don't know.
I also had to make the change because of all the phytoestrogens which i posted about over there. Whole grain and legumes are very high in phytoestrogens, and for me that is a big problem. You should read that book, just to get the opposing side, and I would be interested in where you think the flaws are if low fiber is indeed a misstep. I value your opinion and you have a much better handle on all this stuff than I do. I'm just really struggling and looking for answers. I can't keep doing what i've been doing because it's just not working.
All I know is my gut is at peace for the first time in 7 months. I'm going to continue with everything else i've learned from Dr. Smith and keep up with the testing, just make this one change that I think is best for my particular situation. Grant did this relatively painlessly on a low fiber diet, and it doesn't seem like there are that many who have repeated his success in quite the same way. Maybe the key to his success was LOW fiber? I have no idea, and i'm certainly not suggesting anyone else do it, but I have to!
I think this is absolutely the right thing to do. If something is upsetting you then stop it. Dr Smith has had some interesting stuff to say about gut swelling in his advanced videos so I’ll re-read notes to see if relevant to you. Sounds like you are onto a good plan now. I’m sure Dr Smith would like to hear about your experience. You should drop him an email or link him in a post on the vA network. He’s v interested in swollen guts!
Added later: Dr S talked about swollen gut associated with a putrefactive underlying dysbiosis and then lots of soluble fibre and a lactobacillus probiotic. I think he would be very interested in your experiences. I think you are totally right that you’ve inadvertently fed your dysbiosis. It’s so frustrating when things we try to make us better in fact make things worse. I’ve done a few of these myself!! I tried the supplement NAC and had a very nasty reaction! I suspect that fed my dysbiosis.
Thanks Jenny! Yes I am still working with him, I bought another consult I just have to schedule it. So I will discuss all this with him then. I have to get bloodwork which is hard to do and I just haven't done it yet.
Also I put into chronometer what I'm eating and I'm close to 20-25 gm of fiber, I'm certainly not avoiding all fiber. Just the high phytoestrogen and added fiber. and no way i'm doing any version of carnivore! If Grant was alternating white and brown rice when he started the VAD diet (my understanding), then he was probably averaging around that 20-25/day. Maybe once I get dysbiosis worked out, I can tolerate more, but i'm going to see how this goes for a while. The probiotics didn't seem to make any difference, positive or negative. So I'm going to restart the experiment in a few weeks.