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Difference between Grant and other vitamin A elimination diets
@ggenereux2014 You have done very well at sticking to your diet over the last 6 years with amazing success. Your diet was based on beef, rice and beans, which are obviously low in vitamin A but coincidentally they are also low in lutein (was this intentional)?
I was wondering if the people who are going in the direction of grains like oats, barley, lentils are being held back by the lutein which is why the results of this diet are varied? If you are basing our diet around these foods you could be potentially up at 1000s of IU of lutein a day. Lutein is not vitamin A but it is similar, and you had a very bad reaction to supplementing and I am very sensitive to it. I can cheat a bit with vitamin A and get away with it but not lutein.
I get that soluble fiber is important but is avoiding lutein potentially more important?
The other thing was grant was very careful about supplements so avoided mineral imbalances such as the zinc:copper balance which I have had trouble with probably from supplements.
My grandmother grew up on an old-world diet and I think it would have been on the low-medium side for lutein and much lower than modern diets. Her mother's bread had SOME whole rye, but not a lot-- a scoop or two in a weeks's worth of bread for 13 people. Oat meal WAS a common breakfast. Her father made beer. They had a garden and canned green beans, but a side veg was only served at Sunday dinner--there wasn't a veg on the table each night. Kraut and pickles, stewed prunes and applesauce were the standby foods from the vegetable world and were used as condiments. Most of this food was delivered by horse and buggy in bulk, no weekly trip to the grocer. Her mother never drove or had a car. This diet led to 3 centenarians. They were proud to be able to serve meat nightly to all 11 children. Bread was often a snack.
Hi @sam,
RE: coincidentally they are also low in lutein (was this intentional)?
Yes, partially. It's one of the reasons I don't eat oatmeal.
It's is claimed that lutein does not have vitamin A activity, but I think it sure did in my situation.
Thanks Grant. It is actually worse than real vitamin A for my eczema and the response is much faster
Quote from Sam on September 25, 2020, 4:04 am@ggenereux2014 You have done very well at sticking to your diet over the last 6 years with amazing success. Your diet was based on beef, rice and beans, which are obviously low in vitamin A but coincidentally they are also low in lutein (was this intentional)?
I was wondering if the people who are going in the direction of grains like oats, barley, lentils are being held back by the lutein which is why the results of this diet are varied? If you are basing our diet around these foods you could be potentially up at 1000s of IU of lutein a day. Lutein is not vitamin A but it is similar, and you had a very bad reaction to supplementing and I am very sensitive to it. I can cheat a bit with vitamin A and get away with it but not lutein.
I get that soluble fiber is important but is avoiding lutein potentially more important?
The other thing was grant was very careful about supplements so avoided mineral imbalances such as the zinc:copper balance which I have had trouble with probably from supplements.
I have a similar situation like yours , I can tolerate vitamin A pretty well now , but. surrely not even small amounts of lutein and zeaxanthin, I. was doing. very good , but in between few months ago , I tried lentils ( supposedly have 0 vitamin A) , but had a ton of lutein and zeaxanthin . It made me go back to square 1 , symptoms got worse and now I am even prediabetic . Trying to recover my progress again now
lutein and zeaxanthin IS WORSE! Avoid it at all costs .
That is interesting because I have been having a lot of blood sugar issues too. I might have the connection - that lutein severely depletes vitamin B6 according to Saras diet, and b6 is very important for blood sugar regulation, according to just mainstream information. If you have any other connections between lutein and prediabetes, or blood sugar please share.
@orion I think you are partially right. Lutein is an alcohol according to wikipedia. Carotenoid - Wikipedia.
So if lutein is an alcohol maybe extra zinc is needed to build alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes to deal with the lutein. I also react badly to lutein containing foods. I am now of the opinion that Grants diet was perfect since it not only avoids vitamin A but also lutein. I have had great succes with Grants diet in the beginning (rice, beef, beans) and it wasn't until I replaced my white rice with whole grains like buckwheat, spelt, oats, barley, etc. that I got "detox symptoms" that only got worse as time progressed. Eye issues like night-blindness, dry eyes, photophobia, autistic behavior, and depression. I am now avoiding whole grains and try to minimize lutein in my diet. So eating mostly rice, lean beef, turkey breast, refined olive oil, black beans, white beans, white bread, and white or purple potatoes. My eye issues are now gone and my mood and energy has lifted. I think so called "detox symptoms" that people experience might just be lutein toxicity. I don't get why Dr Garret Smith is OK with most whole grains but is so anti-rice. Rice is the only grain which is close to zero carotenoids. All other grains contain lots of lutein and/or zeaxanthin. I think his reason for allowing lutein containing foods is "because otherwise you couldn't eat anything". He is partially right though. If we want to eat complex carbs but minimize lutein only rice is free of lutein. White or purple potatoes and white bread are very low but still have some. I don't know of a good carb source except these three foods that is low in lutein and vitamin A.
Also, I do believe in detox occurring when eating low vitamin A. but the signs of real detox are that my body feels dirty, and that I start to smell bad. Dark urine, smelly sweat. Stuff like that. That I do get in cycles when eating low vitamin A and low lutein.
@vinero thanks for the extra info. Now at two years, I am able to have wheat, barley and potatoes without major flares, in the very beginning I was consuming way to much oatmeal though. I haven't tested it yet, but I am assuming I could probably have some now without flares, but won't experiment for awhile, things are going to good now.
I think Garret dislikes rice due to the heavy arsenic load it contains.
