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Fiber to absorb toxic bile
In a recent post by @tim-2 he reminded me of the importance of excreting toxic bile again. He wrote this insightful sentence:
Our biochemistry can be affected in many ways but the key to restoring health often simply involves gently improving excretion of bile toxins, improving liver health and improving health holistically with the true naturopathic "do no harm" approach:
@christian, already mentioned on this forum Karen Hurd, a nutritionist who detoxed her seriously pesticides-poisoned daughter using beans, also suggests psyllium husks as the second best source of soluble fibre.
I would imagine that bile has ‘sterilising’ properties, and can be really good at getting rid of bacteria. I heard of people who started from ONE bean and increased daily by one; slow process but they had good results in the end.
There are beans and there are beans. Split mung beans are very easy on digestive system and Ayurvedic kitchari (rice and beans porridge) and Chinese congee (rice porridge) are successfully used in treating digestive problems. Of course not everything works for everyone, so gentle testing is in order. If the SIBO was a result of chronic constipation, then from personal experience, there is no better gentle laxative than kitchari.
@beata-2 Yeah, I'm aware that you've brought up Karen Hurd before, I didn't know how psyllium husks were an almost equally good fiber to bind to bile. Some people even supplement with ox bile to increase bile production, for instance, when you have the gallbladder removed. Great idea to slowly eat beans to adapt to them.
Are you aware of any insoluble fiber which would not be fermented by bacteria? Especially in the small intestine where one has as little fermentation going on as possible.
The SIBO in my case is more of the diarrhea kind. So constipation hasn't been a problem for me. I have a bowl movement at least three times a day, if not more.
Thank you for pointing out different kinds of dishes to address digestive problems. Chinese congee sounds delicious.
Before whatever hell broke loose in my intestines when I went Low Vitamin A, I had IBS-D for over a decade. I never got tested for SIBO, but I'm pretty sure I had it to some degree for much of that time. I think it lasted as long as it did because I was doing exactly the opposite of what I probably should've been doing to fix it...I was going off the advice available at the time and trying to minimize my symptoms, so I ate a low-fat, high-carb diet almost entirely devoid of fiber except for Acacia fiber that I was supplementing by the Tablespoon multiple times per day.
My first epiphany and major step forward came when I adopted the Fast Tract Diet approach by Robillard and discovered that I could handle fat just fine. I do think the bile acids/salts have a huge impact on your gut flora, and I suspect that if you don't eat a good deal of fat to keep bile acids flowing through, then you probably need to be actively feeding the "right" bacteria with some form of fermentable fiber in order to prevent the "wrong" bacteria from taking hold and encouraging the wrong gut environment to persist. However, I also think that too many secondary plant compounds like oxalates and lectins seriously contribute to SIBO, so if you're going to eat plant foods to feed the "good" bacteria, make sure you select them carefully and prepare them in the traditional way that minimizes plant toxins.
My chronic diarrhea first disappeared (almost overnight) when I stopped eating starch and went on a GAPS/SCD diet. Unfortunately, I traded the processed starches for a shit ton of beta carotene and oxalate laden plant foods and wound up screwing myself over in a much worse way.
A low oxalate diet did miracles for my gut when I finally realized my error. I think carnivore would've fixed it even more had I not had Vitamin A (and likely copper) problems that became exposed. I think a carnivore diet tends to reveal all your underlying problems and will tend to heal them over time, but depending on what those problems are you might need to slowly shift into a meat-based diet. A sudden dump of oxalates, for example, can really mess you up.
Having tried a carnivore-ish version of Low Vitamin A for 1.5 years, I'm pretty confident that you can detox Vitamin A and anything else on a carnivore diet, but it might be a miserable experience. I'm not entirely sure what's going on in my gut, but I think Vitamin A dumping somehow leads to bile acid malabsorption, and if you don't bind the bile acids with something like fiber, you wind up with a lot of awful diarrhea and GI distress. I've been experimenting with fruit and acacia fiber recently. I've tried psyllium in the past. I'm still not sure how much fiber is needed to counteract a given amount of fat in the diet, but it seems like you don't need much fiber to bind up whatever bile is flowing through on a low-fat diet (1 Cup of fruit and 1/4 teaspoon of Acacia fiber seems to make a noticeable difference if I keep my fat intake to a minimum). Problem is, I absolutely crave fat, and I don't think a high-fat + high-fiber diet is very natural for the body (historically, a person would probably only be eating a bunch of fiber if they were forced to get the majority of their calories from plants instead of animals, and were therefore eating a carb-based rather than fat-based diet).
How's your fat digestion?
@christian, sorry, I don’t know if the soluble fibre will feed bacteria in the small intestine, and how you would respond to the beans, and if they are even appropriate in your condition. Everyone seems to have a different idea… Lately, I am questioning just about everything related to health and I can only speak from my own experience. But then it will relate to my own health.
I hope you will find the solution to your health issues.
@wavygravygadzooks You have quite a long history of challenging health problems. Welcome to the club. 🙂 IBS-D is challenging to treat, sometimes I wonder if I'll ever be able to have normal bowl movements again.
I wasn't aware of the importance of fat for proper bile production. I think I digest fats just fine, but I don't eat that much fat to begin with. The diet is high in carbohydrates, medium in protein and low in fat. Most fats contain too much vA or beta carotene. Do you think that could be a problem that not enough bile is produced?
Most plant foods don't appeal to me, sometimes I eat cucumber or cauliflower. When I prepare meals for others who visit me, I'd deviate from my rather strict meat-based diet. The rare sauerkraut I enjoy too (great with hot dogs :)).
Aren't issues with starches related to bacterial overgrowth? That's what I strongly suspect. Look at your tongue. If there is a white coating, this would be indicative of SIBO. If it's pink like a child's tongue, there is no overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine. I've also noticed that small blackheads on the nose are a good tell-tale sign of SIBO. Watch for it in other people and if they complain about digestive problems. I bet there is a strong correlation.
A low oxalate diet did miracles for my gut when I finally realized my error. I think carnivore would've fixed it even more had I not had Vitamin A (and likely copper) problems that became exposed. I think a carnivore diet tends to reveal all your underlying problems and will tend to heal them over time, but depending on what those problems are you might need to slowly shift into a meat-based diet. A sudden dump of oxalates, for example, can really mess you up.
That's an interesting statement you make that a carnivore diet will reveal underlying problems and heal it over time. That sounds like the detox reactions certain people describe on the forum when they go low vA. That dumping excess retinoic acid will temporarily exacerbate certain symptoms before they go into remission.
Is acacia fiber soluble? I'm asking b/c I suspect insoluble fibers aren't much of help when there are bacteria in the small intestine where there shouldn't be any.
When I started reading more about the fermentability of different fibers, I think I realized that the soluble/insoluble nature of fibers is not a useful diagnostic. Some insoluble fibers are more fermentable by certain bacteria than some soluble fibers are, and vice versa. It also depends on the form of the particular fiber - whether it's whole, partially milled, or ground into a powder (the finer the particle size, the more readily fermented). I think acacia fiber powder has a low-to-moderate fermentability. Whole psyllium husk probably has the lowest fermentability of the common supplemental fibers. Cellulose (depending on the type) is supposedly also not very fermentable. Lignin might be the least fermentable type of fiber, but I couldn't really find any lignin supplements...it tends to be found in roots/tubers and structural plant parts (think woody fibers).
If you seem to tolerate fat, I would suggest trying to gradually increase your fat intake and lower your carb intake and see what effect that has on your SIBO. Unless you're absolutely sure that you have a major case of Vitamin A toxicity, I wouldn't get too hung up on the amount of Vitamin A found in most ruminant animal fat. Just try to avoid buying anything that's bright yellow (telltale sign of high levels of beta carotene). It's probably far more important to address SIBO than to worry about smaller amounts of Vitamin A in foods, because SIBO is going to make you more vulnerable to all kinds of problems, possibly including abnormally high Vitamin A and oxalate absorption (I suspect my SIBO set the stage for the other health issues that followed).
My cravings for fat are actually limited. Goat butter seems to be pretty low in vA/beta carotene. Maybe I have a go with it, but I'm not sold yet. First, I've started to supplement with activated charcoal, probably for a week now, and I think this is really doing something good for both my digestion and vA. Second, my vA is really too high after almost three years avoiding it like the plague, the most recent blood values are in the 90s. That's pretty concerning if you ask me. Anyway, it also tells me there is a long way to go besides the important fact to remember to eat some fiber or something else to bind the bile. I haven't eaten much fiber for the last two years, which might be an explanation why vA is still out of control.
I tried psyllium husk a while ago. I'll probably try it again at some point.
I suppose I decided to try acacia fiber in part because I figured it would have less of a negative impact on the lining of the digestive tract and on nutrient absorption than the hull of a seed, which probably contains lectins and phytates, although supposedly there are very few lectins in psyllium...not sure if I believe that since it seems like all seeds contain lectins. Also, I think all the psyllium products are sourced from India, and even though some are designated as Organic, I still have concerns about pollutants in the soil the psyllium is grown in over there. Lead, in particular, has been mentioned by some.
If bile acids are important for modulating the gut biome, you might not be helping your SIBO by binding up whatever bile acids you've got transiting your gut with fiber. Do you have GI symptoms that would indicate excess bile? I can't remember if you said you've been struggling with diarrhea or not. The only reason I've personally gone back to supplementing fiber is because the diarrhea and GI problems I've been having are awful, and since it's likely caused by bile acid malabsorption, I think the only way to resolve them at the moment is to bind them. I tried charcoal and clay and they just seemed to make the symptoms worse (I think they are both serious desiccants and are harsh on mucus membranes...I tried swishing with charcoal in my mouth one time and it felt terrible!).
I think I would agree with Jiri that charcoal is best relegated to fixing the occasional GI disturbance and not regular consumption. There's a reason people used to char trees before using them in house and structural foundations...it creates an inhospitable barrier to anything that would cause the wood to rot, I think in part by being hydrophobic and repelling water. Soluble fibers tend to retain viscosity in the digestive tract once they have absorbed water, and I would bet that's a lot easier on the membranes.