Quote from Matrixik on November 9, 2019, 12:07 am

Smith shared somewhere research papers showing that pectins don't release this methanol in human digestive tract.

Quote from r on November 14, 2019, 4:27 am

Hi 

Regarding Cauliflower , I always eat them cooked , boil them before steaming for about 15 mins , and I never had issues after eating cauliflower , I eat a lot of Cauliflower , I think boiling solves the issues , but I might be wrong . 

Quote from bludicka on December 12, 2019, 11:10 am

I still don't understand this whole methanol and formaldehyde thing ...According to this document, e.g. pears contain a lot of formaldehyde: https://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/multimedia/multimedia_pub/multimedia_pub_fsf_06_01.html  

 

And according to this document the pears are excellent to alleviate hangover and have very positive effect on ADH and ALDH acitivty:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266592711930005X  

 

"Pear showed the highest positive effect on ALDH activity at 90.98%. Orange, starfruit, and sweet lime also enhanced the ALDH activity significantly by 15.48%, 22.76% and 33.47%, respectively. The potential use of pear to alleviate hangover has been reported in previous studies based on their effect on the activity of the enzyme (Lee et al., 2012). Enhanced ALDH activity of pear facilitates in faster elimination of acetaldehyde and thus it serves as a suitable AHO."

 

Also, we should eat pears and cucumbers! 

Also, we should eat pears and cucumbers! 

Quote from ggenereux on December 12, 2019, 7:19 pm

Hi @bludicka,

Here’s what I think is happening. When ingesting foods that contain methanol or formaldehyde the body needs to respond to that toxic threat. Thus, there is an increase in the amounts of ALDH produced in proportion to that new demand. Therefore, even though "Pear showed the highest positive effect on ALDH activity at 90.98%”, that does not mean that pears are a good thing to be eating, because the formaldehyde in those pears is just going to also consume most of that  new 90.98% increase in ALDH.

However, it's possible that a very small amount of these foods, or maybe even alcohol, could be beneficial by triggering the production of these ALDH enzymes. If the amount triggered is greater than the actual amount needed, then there might be a residual supply for detoxifying the retinoids too. This is mostly speculation based on anecdotal evidence that small amounts of wine consumption seem to provide long term health benefits. But, I have no idea if this applies to people with vA toxicity conditions.

Grant

Quote from bludicka on December 12, 2019, 11:10 pm

But what about the other positive effects of vegetables and fruits on the liver? Perhaps it is reductionist to think about vegetables and fruits only in terms of formaldehyde, methanol content. I totally stopped drinking juices but I think the whole vegetables and fruits have their benefits (low oxalate, low carotenoids and I stopped garlic - is toxic for brain, in higher amounts for liver too). 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4499388/  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209543/

 

"A commonest English axiom reads, “an apple a day keeps the doctor away.” Apples were one of the earliest foods that medical specialists accepted as beneficial and healthy. Apple polyphenol extract has been shown to have hepatoprotective effects on liver oxidative stress which was induced by aluminum chloride in the rat [57]. Tamoxifen is a nonsteroidal antiestrogen and has been used to induce oxidative stress in rats showing increase in aminotransferases. This effect was reduced significantly by a food product consisting of dried apple and mandarin juice [58]. Table 2 briefly lists medicinal use of common plant foods for liver health."

 

"The mung bean or moong bean is also known as green gram and is regarded as a detoxification agent for thousands of years in both in Traditional and folk Chinese medicine. Mung bean accelerates metabolism and transformation of toxins in food and drug by special enzymes which involve in the biosynthesis of phenolic compounds. Mung bean sprout produces several kinds of hepatoprotective compounds such as flavonoid and chlorogenic acid [77]. An aldehyde reductase has been extracted from mung bean that detoxifies fungal toxins [78]. "

 

We can support liver health with some herbal teas: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6274469/ 

Quote from bludicka on December 13, 2019, 12:05 am

@ggenereux2014

But when pears have the ability to heal a hangover, it doesn't mean that they produce more ADH and ALDH activity than what is used up for formaldehyde in fruits?

"All subjects consumed 540 ml of spirits (alcohol conc. 20.1 v/v%) after 30 min from the intervention, i.e. placebo or Korean pear juice treatment. Blood and urine specimens were collected in time-courses (9 time-points for 15 h after alcohol consumption). The total and average of hangover severity were alleviated to 16% and 21% by Korean pear juice at 15 h after the alcohol consumption, respectively (ps<0.05). Particularly, 'trouble concentrating' was significantly improved by the pear juice treatment (p<0.05). Impaired memory, and sensitivity to light and sound were significantly improved by Korean pear juice among the subjects with ALDH2*1/*1 or ALDH2*1/*2 genotypes (ps<0.05) but not in the subjects with ALDH2*2/*2 genotype. In addition, the pear juice treatment lowered levels of blood alcohol (p<0.01). Therefore, Korean pear juice may alleviate alcohol-hangover and its detoxification of alcohol seems to be modified by the genetic variation of ALDH2."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23587660  
https://blog.csiro.au/pre-pair-yourself-have-we-ended-the-fruitless-search-for-hangover-prevention/
https://www.phlabs.com/pears-for-a-hangover
 

Quote from bludicka on December 13, 2019, 1:30 am

Protective effect of heat-treated cucumber (Cucumis sativus L.) juice on alcohol detoxification

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27383492

Effect of Mixed Fruit and Vegetable Juice on Alcohol Hangovers in Healthy Adults.

https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/5894779

"Natural products containing fruit, vegetable, and herbal substances increased alcohol degrading enzyme activities and have been reported to alleviate alcohol hangover symptoms. Dandelion (12), pear (13), tomato (14), red ginseng (15), Hovenia dulcis (16), and Opuntia ficus indica (17) are reported to relieve hangovers by stimulating alcohol metabolism and have antioxidant effects on alcohol-induced oxidative stress."

"The consumption of AGP (Angelica keiskei/green grape/pear) juice effectively attenuated the increase of alcohol levels in plasma and expiratory-air after ingestion of alcohol and decreased the AUC in healthy subjects. Plasma acetaldehyde levels of the AGP juice group tended to be lower than the control group, although the differences were not significant. Acetaldehyde is responsible for hangover symptoms (10). A hangover involves various physical and psychological symptoms following excess alcohol intake. AGP juice improved headache and thirst symptoms after consumption of alcohol. Alcohol hangover symptoms were relieved by increasing the activities of alcohol degrading enzymes (13). It was reported that elevation of the activities of alcohol metabolizing enzymes could be beneficial in eliminating of alcohol metabolites (13,15,25). Several natural products have been reported to reduce the levels of blood alcohol metabolites by increasing the activities of alcohol degrading enzymes, including Korean pear juice (13), red ginseng (15), and herbal mixture (25). Lee et al. (13) demonstrated that Korean pear juice may improve alcohol detoxification by stimulating the activities of ADH and ALDH. In another study, a herbal mixture extract of Viscum album L., Lycium chinense L., Inonotus obliques, and Acanthopanax senticosus H. alleviated alcohol hangover symptoms by reducing plasma alcohol levels in healthy adult males (25). In the present study, AGP juice increased ADH and ALDH activities by 32.0% and 27.4% in vitro, indicating that alcohol and acetaldehyde are degraded rapidly after alcohol consumption, which prevents accumulation of alcohol metabolites. Thus, AGP juice may enhance alcohol metabolism by increasing ADH and ALDH activities. These data demonstrated that reduced plasma alcohol levels by consumption of AGP juice could contribute to eliminate alcohol toxicity."

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/a-potential-hangover-cure-just-in-time-for-the-festive-season

 

Quote from ggenereux on December 13, 2019, 5:58 am

Hi @bludicka

I agree that some fruits and vegetables do have their benefits. I still occasionally eat peeled apples,  and I eat black beans 3-4 times a week. 

But, I don't know if the stimulating effects on ADH and ALDH production by Asian pears etc. outweighs the downside of the additional formaldehyde intake. The studies you've referenced appear to indicate that to be the case when detoxifying alcohol. But, I don't know if that applies to us. So, I was just wanting to be careful and not make any recommendations one way or the other. Each person is going to have to decide what works best for themselves. Of course, I'd be absolutely thrilled to find a reliable and safe accelerator for detoxifying the retinoids.

Thanks

Grant

 

Quote from bludicka on December 13, 2019, 6:36 am

@ggenereux2014

Thanks for your response. I probably won't start pouring  pear juice in liters:) but I will add peeled pears regularly into the diet. 

And maybe I will buy  pears or pear juice for New Year's Eve and give my friends to prevent hangover and to test the theory :).