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VA-toxic food chain/chicken experiment/"walking corn"
Arena, I wouldn't throw it away, especially here in the middle of food shortages! I still eat corn based things, although now I always try to buy white corn products.
I spent lots of time gluten free and corn starch is very good at helping you get some normal-ish bread. Hopefully someday you won't be gluten-free any more!
I'd make a pun about this thread but it would probably come across as a bit corny...
@lil-chick are your chickens running around eating leafy greens and insects in pasture? or are you restricting them from doing that to keep the VA low?
In the wild I'd say chickens would eat a ton of insects. If I ever have chickens I will just have a tiny number and I will try to design an ecology that fosters the growth of insects for them to mostly live on. They love maggots so innards from butchered animals, roadkill and rodents and pests that have been trapped or shot can be placed in their area and they love to feed on the resulting maggots. Lots of decaying plant matter (mulching prunings could create a lot of it) helps foster insect growth too. I suspect that chickens would suffer much less disease in general on a more insect based diet, it isn't commercially viable obviously, I would just keep them for a few eggs and for roast chicken once in a while. The eggs would be very nutritionally dense, high in iodine, selenium and DHA.
Tim, my chickens work 'round the cluck trying to find bugs to eat.
You are right, chickens are not vegetarians! and yes, I'm sure there are lots of drawbacks to the bought feed. I really would like to mix my own feed, at some point. A high-producing hen probably does need some feed. Some breeds are known for being better at getting by on forage.
They also like to eat grass each day. And small rocks, LOL.
Of course, there are several good months here with zero insects and zero grass!
I do keep my mulch pile in the chicken zone. Recently I've been trying to decide if I should give uneaten cat burger to the chickens, and I think I might be being a bit too squeamish about it! Thanks for that.
Chickens are an amazing invention: they turn bugs, grass and rocks into breakfast! They are so fun to raise, I hope you get your flock some day.
If you grew some white corn, some amaranth and some sunflowers I would imagine you could just store the seed heads of these plants and then throw them the whole seed head to peck at? If you werent having to process the grain you grew for them I would imagine that it would be quite easy to grow all the feed you need self sufficiently? You would have to have a super dry space that was rodent proof to dry and store the grain though. Also, rats and mice would smell that grain so if you placed effective traps at the ventilation points for where the grain was kept then the dead rodents could be used to provide maggots to the chickens!
@are @lil-chick @tim-2 nice puns 🤣
I missed seeing your experiment, Lil Chick. Very interesting stuff.
Here is something from a document that was posted a while back in a thread about carotenoid toxicity:
- - - - -
Something is wrong
‘A north Wales-based supermarket chain has stopped selling eggs with artificially coloured yolks after its chairman began keeping free-range birds and realised the colour was false. Deeside-based Iceland - the first supermarket chain to ban genetically modified foods - has now removed chemical colourants from its fresh egg range. Chairman Malcolm Walker said he discovered the myth behind the bright yellow yolk while rearing his own chickens.
‘Something was wrong’
“I keep eight or nine hens at home just as I grow my own vegetables,” he explained.
“I became worried about the eggs when I noticed the yolks were different colours.
I had even thrown ones with lighter coloured yolks away as I thought something was wrong.” Mr Walker consulted Iceland's egg buyer about the issue just eight weeks ago and discovered the difference in colour was a totally natural occurrence.
Damaged eye retinas
“I found, to my horror, we have been dyeing eggs for 25 years in Britain by putting commercial dye in hens’ feed.” The shade of yellow of an egg's yolk depends on what a hen has eaten in the 10 days before laying it. Commercial animals are fed on high protein pellets which can contain three artificial chemicals to create an even yellow yolk. Of the three artificial colours used Iceland claim some 30% contain Canthaxanthin (E161g). This substance was formerly used in artificial tanning pills, but withdrawn when it was suggested its use could damage the eye's retina.
Customer reaction not positive
Although eggs stamped with the egg industry's Lion code do not contain this, Iceland says another 30% of eggs on sale in Britain which are not Lion branded could contain the chemical. Iceland admits that initial customer reaction on testing panels to the paler yolks was not positive. But when shoppers heard the story behind the change in colour they wanted the more natural product.’ 68
European Commission
The additives: carotenoid sources of canthaxanthine and lutein from substances such as marigold flowers and sunflowers makes egg yolks appear more yellow
‘The additive makes egg yolks appear more yellow. The European Union has limited permitted levels of a food additive given to salmon and poultry, which may damage the eye. The chemical, canthaxanthin, is added to feed. It makes salmon appear more reddish, and chicken skin and egg yolks appear more yellow. But research has suggested that a build up of pigments can damage the retina. The level of the chemical allowed in salmon feed is to be cut by over two thirds. Limits will be even stricter in the feed for laying hens. Officials say the restrictions will not have any impact on the quality of farmed salmon or supermarket eggs.
Assessments
The European Commission said levels of the chemical should be reduced from a maximum of 80mg per kilogram to 25mg per kilogram of feed for fish and poultry, and 8mg per kilogram for laying hens. All EU members will have to enforce new regulations by the end of the year. Commissioner David Byrne said: “Scientific assessments have shown that a high intake of canthaxanthins produces an accumulation of pigments in the retina, affecting the sight. The use of this feed additive is purely cosmetic.”
Extreme consumption
A spokeswoman for the UK's Food Standards Agency (FSA) told BBC News Online:
“What the EU has been looking at is the very extreme consumption of products containing canthaxanthin.” But it's something that's related to long-term exposure rather than acute. “Eating products with low levels of canthaxanthin is not something that people need to be worried about.” She said the FSA wanted to see levels of canthaxanthin in fish flesh, rather than in the feed measured, and labelling of products so consumers could see how much canthaxanthin they contain.’
SOURCE:
OMG @Puddleduck that is so on point! Thank you for that. Scary about the suspected bad effect ON EYES!
I'm going to have to look at the ingredients list of my feed again.
@tim-2, New England isn't the best place to grow grains. (although we are known for the best sweet corn), That's why everyone abandoned this place and moved to the mid west, LOL. We aren't too bad at growing hay (for grass eating in winter).
The fact that the chickens eat grass and have always done so (as do most farm animals) makes me think that there may be good carotenoids and bad carotenoids. The ones in the feed that harm eyes: bad. The ones in grasses: not as bad? just a theory.
I don't see anything on the ingredients list of the organic layer pellets I buy such as catnthaxanthin, marigold or sunflower. Just vitamin A acetate as the final ingredient in the list.
But, my old non-organic layer pellets DO.
"Marigold extract
For consistent, deep yellow egg yolks and increased lutein in eggs"
awe @are, that is adorable. Chickens can be more lovable than you'd think. I've got one that adores me. In the video, is that a male baby cow? My brother had a male baby cow that he said was "doglike". No one likes being alone...
https://www.poulingrain.com/products/200/egg-production-plus
This chicken feed provider (in my area) has come up with a new formulation!
It amps up the orange of the yolks!
(as if backyard flocks around here didn't already have nuclear orange yolks)
Ho boy.
Testimonial: "Their eggs have the deepest, most rich orange I've seen. "