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Grant has NOT proven that vitamin A is non-essential
Those who can't pull themselves away from arguing on a forum they disagree with may have an underlying insecurity that this theory may be correct and they counteract that by trying to prove it wrong. It's the only reason I can think of that someone would spend hours of their precious time arguing about it. We need discussion about theories, but not attacks. I was attacked for saying I won't poopoo the theory. I think Grant's work is amazing, it takes extreme dedication to stick to such a boring diet, and he is doing the world a service by being a human guinea pig as it is unethical to prove these kinds of theories in a clinical study. He signed up to possibly losing his vision, thankfully that hasn't happened! As I said in the other thread I won't poo poo the theory because I think vitamin A is dangerous and our society is playing with fire using it in supplements, eating liver and cod liver oil, using it to control acne, and adding it to food. You won't know if you are the unlucky one until it happens to you.
Those who can't pull themselves away from arguing on a forum they disagree with may have an underlying insecurity that this theory may be correct and they counteract that by trying to prove it wrong. It's the only reason I can think of that someone would spend hours of their precious time arguing about it. We need discussion about theories, but not attacks. I was attacked for saying I won't poopoo the theory. I think Grant's work is amazing, it takes extreme dedication to stick to such a boring diet, and he is doing the world a service by being a human guinea pig as it is unethical to prove these kinds of theories in a clinical study. He signed up to possibly losing his vision, thankfully that hasn't happened! As I said in the other thread I won't poo poo the theory because I think vitamin A is dangerous and our society is playing with fire using it in supplements, eating liver and cod liver oil, using it to control acne, and adding it to food. You won't know if you are the unlucky one until it happens to you.
Viktor2 has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Andrew B on August 31, 2024, 6:46 am
There are people here who followed Grant's programme to the T and ran into problems. I did a lot of beans and ran into what seemed like serious problems. I realised I had a choline deficiency and at the same time introduced a betaine source and B1 foods. Grant removed as much vA as he could but it's not the best way to detox the liver especially if it's a fatty liver. We disagree about the approach not the principle that reducing vitamin A is very helpful. I think we 'might' only need a tiny amount like 25-50 mcgs which you can barely see. I dont think we should all be falling out about very small amounts. I'd prefer a varied diet for enjoyment too so kudos to Grant for his diet but it's not for me ever. I think variety may help with gut microbiome as well and avoiding food intolerances. Variety and gut microbiome might also help the detox. The people arguing are trying to stop other people making the same mistakes.
There are people here who followed Grant's programme to the T and ran into problems. I did a lot of beans and ran into what seemed like serious problems. I realised I had a choline deficiency and at the same time introduced a betaine source and B1 foods. Grant removed as much vA as he could but it's not the best way to detox the liver especially if it's a fatty liver. We disagree about the approach not the principle that reducing vitamin A is very helpful. I think we 'might' only need a tiny amount like 25-50 mcgs which you can barely see. I dont think we should all be falling out about very small amounts. I'd prefer a varied diet for enjoyment too so kudos to Grant for his diet but it's not for me ever. I think variety may help with gut microbiome as well and avoiding food intolerances. Variety and gut microbiome might also help the detox. The people arguing are trying to stop other people making the same mistakes.
tim, Hermes and 2 other users have reacted to this post.
timHermesRetinoiconDeleted user
Quote from
Hermes on August 31, 2024, 7:04 am
@andrew-b
Well said, a voice of reason. I'm not disputing the fact that less vitamin A in the body is beneficial; Grant clearly shows that: Over time, his function increased. In later years, the curve flattened. But is his approach the right one for everyone? It clearly doesn't work for about half of the rice, beans, and meat group. Jenny, Andrew, Meri Arthur offer an alternative approach with the same goal: vitamin A depletion. And that's why I'm here: to learn what works best for me.
@andrew-b
Well said, a voice of reason. I'm not disputing the fact that less vitamin A in the body is beneficial; Grant clearly shows that: Over time, his function increased. In later years, the curve flattened. But is his approach the right one for everyone? It clearly doesn't work for about half of the rice, beans, and meat group. Jenny, Andrew, Meri Arthur offer an alternative approach with the same goal: vitamin A depletion. And that's why I'm here: to learn what works best for me.
Deleted user and Andrew B have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Andrew B on August 31, 2024, 6:46 am
There are people here who followed Grant's programme to the T and ran into problems. I did a lot of beans and ran into what seemed like serious problems. I realised I had a choline deficiency and at the same time introduced a betaine source and B1 foods. Grant removed as much vA as he could but it's not the best way to detox the liver especially if it's a fatty liver. We disagree about the approach not the principle that reducing vitamin A is very helpful. I think we 'might' only need a tiny amount like 25-50 mcgs which you can barely see. I dont think we should all be falling out about very small amounts. I'd prefer a varied diet for enjoyment too so kudos to Grant for his diet but it's not for me ever. I think variety may help with gut microbiome as well and avoiding food intolerances. Variety and gut microbiome might also help the detox. The people arguing are trying to stop other people making the same mistakes.
They can help others without attacking them and slandering them.
Quote from
Andrew B on August 31, 2024, 6:46 am
There are people here who followed Grant's programme to the T and ran into problems. I did a lot of beans and ran into what seemed like serious problems. I realised I had a choline deficiency and at the same time introduced a betaine source and B1 foods. Grant removed as much vA as he could but it's not the best way to detox the liver especially if it's a fatty liver. We disagree about the approach not the principle that reducing vitamin A is very helpful. I think we 'might' only need a tiny amount like 25-50 mcgs which you can barely see. I dont think we should all be falling out about very small amounts. I'd prefer a varied diet for enjoyment too so kudos to Grant for his diet but it's not for me ever. I think variety may help with gut microbiome as well and avoiding food intolerances. Variety and gut microbiome might also help the detox. The people arguing are trying to stop other people making the same mistakes.
They can help others without attacking them and slandering them.
Quote from
Andrew B on August 31, 2024, 6:46 am
There are people here who followed Grant's programme to the T and ran into problems. I did a lot of beans and ran into what seemed like serious problems. I realised I had a choline deficiency and at the same time introduced a betaine source and B1 foods. Grant removed as much vA as he could but it's not the best way to detox the liver especially if it's a fatty liver. We disagree about the approach not the principle that reducing vitamin A is very helpful. I think we 'might' only need a tiny amount like 25-50 mcgs which you can barely see. I dont think we should all be falling out about very small amounts. I'd prefer a varied diet for enjoyment too so kudos to Grant for his diet but it's not for me ever. I think variety may help with gut microbiome as well and avoiding food intolerances. Variety and gut microbiome might also help the detox. The people arguing are trying to stop other people making the same mistakes.
Also who are you speaking about? I was attacked for saying I won't poo poo theory.
Quote from
Andrew B on August 31, 2024, 6:46 am
There are people here who followed Grant's programme to the T and ran into problems. I did a lot of beans and ran into what seemed like serious problems. I realised I had a choline deficiency and at the same time introduced a betaine source and B1 foods. Grant removed as much vA as he could but it's not the best way to detox the liver especially if it's a fatty liver. We disagree about the approach not the principle that reducing vitamin A is very helpful. I think we 'might' only need a tiny amount like 25-50 mcgs which you can barely see. I dont think we should all be falling out about very small amounts. I'd prefer a varied diet for enjoyment too so kudos to Grant for his diet but it's not for me ever. I think variety may help with gut microbiome as well and avoiding food intolerances. Variety and gut microbiome might also help the detox. The people arguing are trying to stop other people making the same mistakes.
Also who are you speaking about? I was attacked for saying I won't poo poo theory.
Quote from
Hermes on August 31, 2024, 11:00 am
@jessica2
Made fun of your appearance? You're a cutie judged by your thumbnail.
@jessica2
Made fun of your appearance? You're a cutie judged by your thumbnail.
Deleted user has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Janelle525 on August 31, 2024, 11:12 am
@andrew-b
Nevermind, I know you aren't going to say who you are referring to because it seems now the forum is going to be run by ya'll. It doesn't feel like a safe space anymore for us who want to be low vitamin A.
@andrew-b
Nevermind, I know you aren't going to say who you are referring to because it seems now the forum is going to be run by ya'll. It doesn't feel like a safe space anymore for us who want to be low vitamin A.
Mokus, Fred and r have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Hermes on September 1, 2024, 3:09 am
@jessica2
I'm glad I could be a rare occasion, mama!
DDG? It can't be Duck Duck Go, even though we have a duck here.
@jessica2
I'm glad I could be a rare occasion, mama!
DDG? It can't be Duck Duck Go, even though we have a duck here.
Deleted user has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tricky on September 4, 2024, 4:33 pm
Quote from
Tommy on August 19, 2024, 3:49 am
I don’t see how the RDA is relevant.
What is the RDA based on?
@tommy
I got the same type of response from Grant a while back when I made points similar to yours. He's got his heels dug in firmly and is anything but open-minded on this subject, which is a shame because what he's demonstrated with his low Vitamin A intake is noteworthy but is now associated with illogical zealotry.
Quote from
Tommy on August 19, 2024, 3:49 am
I don’t see how the RDA is relevant.
What is the RDA based on?
@tommy
I got the same type of response from Grant a while back when I made points similar to yours. He's got his heels dug in firmly and is anything but open-minded on this subject, which is a shame because what he's demonstrated with his low Vitamin A intake is noteworthy but is now associated with illogical zealotry.
Deleted user has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tricky on September 5, 2024, 12:27 pm
@jessica2
Yep, I think some of your suggestions about Grant's original kidney problems certainly have merit.
@jessica2
Yep, I think some of your suggestions about Grant's original kidney problems certainly have merit.
Deleted user has reacted to this post.
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