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grapes make hands itch, mouth tingle
So, a long time ago we planted all sorts of grapes, no way to tell what kind they are now. Anyways back then, in some sort of pastoral effort, we put a bunch of grapes into a bin and had our young daughter smash them with her feet as in days of yore. She got an itchy rash. It went away with soap and water and a little time.
Cut to this week, I picked a bucket of these grapes and squashed them with my hands and also got a rash. Same thing, it went away with soap and water and a little time.
In surfing the inter webs, I've heard others complain of this. Some say it is because of pollens that have gathered on the surface of the grapes. Other theories are that it is tannins. I'd like to posit that it could be oxalates. It could even be a problem with pigments, as we have seen, pigments are problematic (VA is a pigment).
I'm fermenting my grapes and tasting them daily and each time I do my mouth tingles. I'm thinking that perhaps the repetitive removal of the skins/seeds/sediments from the wine (in the brewing process) eventually lowers the amounts of this problematic thing, or that fermenting might change it to something less bothersome.
I have made grape jelly and don't feel that it has the tingling effect, perhaps it goes away with the skins/seeds.
I hope that people don't think this is too far off from the purpose of the forum, but I do sometimes think that Grant might be avoiding lots of OTHER plant poisons besides VA on his meat/rice diet. So, for me, all plant toxins are interesting to think about and germane to the topic.
Could be the salycilates. I think only concorde grapes are high in oxalates. If they were green or red, I don't think those are.
Quote from lil chick on September 16, 2022, 9:32 amI hope that people don't think this is too far off from the purpose of the forum, but I do sometimes think that Grant might be avoiding lots of OTHER plant poisons besides VA on his meat/rice diet. So, for me, all plant toxins are interesting to think about and germane to the topic.
I agere with you. Oxalates has turned out to be a huge issue for me. Stuff I thought was A related has turned out to be Ox related. I still believe A is problematic and I keep levels low, but keeping low fat milk in my diet for some time now has not been an issue for me at all, quite the contrary. Moderate ox is probably ok for most, but I would personally stay far away from high "non-a" sources like chocolate/cocoa, buckwheat, all pseudo grains, potatoes, whole wheat and go VERY easy on the beans, especially if one does not improve. Just my 2 cents.
As stated above, concord grapes are very high in Ox. And ox, like A, is corrosive.
Quote from lil chick on September 16, 2022, 9:32 amI hope that people don't think this is too far off from the purpose of the forum, but I do sometimes think that Grant might be avoiding lots of OTHER plant poisons besides VA on his meat/rice diet. So, for me, all plant toxins are interesting to think about and germane to the topic.
I agree, but it doesn't seem to just stop at plant foods. Some people have problems with eggs, liver, shellfish, pork, etc. After looking into all of this stuff for years now it appears one of the safest foods for the vast majority of people is ruminant meat. There are accounts of people living off just beef for years and they appear to be in extremely good health and it's almost unheard of for anyone to have any type of bad reaction to it. All I have heard of up to this point is if someone gets bitten by a certain tick they can have bad reactions to beef afterwards, but even then I wonder how they'd react if they ate only beef and not hamburgers/steak and potatoes/etc.
It's honestly all very odd to me that so many things in our diet now cause health issues. The vitamin A theory is almost certainly part of it, but it's probably not the whole story. I wonder if it's also access to such a variety of foods and the body being unable to adapt to them. If you look as Weston A. Price's work healthy cultures ate the same thing their entire lives so they may have just been finely tuned to those foods and their bodies were able to handle whatever toxins were present over generations of adaptations. I also wonder of entropy of human DNA could play a part as well as various other things all culminating in our current health issues. Regardless of the mechanisms I think it's clear that plants are causing a lot of problems for a lot of people, and some animals foods are as well albeit much less so. It really sucks too because food has always been so important to people for a variety of reasons and it just seems to be riddled with problems now.
Have you found anthocyanins to be problematic in general? At the beginning of the diet, I included grape juice (green and purple - fresh grapes and Welch’s grape juice) due to the reference to grapes/Greece and Alzheimer’s in the book but I stopped it after a while as people didn’t seem to be including it (I didn’t notice any bad effects but it could be that the effect takes a while to show up).
Everything that messes up our livers feels ON TOPIC for the vA blog to me. vA wrecks our liver first and worst. Getting better requires helping the liver. Have seen more examples of people who address vA and neglect other factors in liver health than of those who address all issues. Missing out all factors we can address feels like biggest single dividing line between success and failure.
That said, I did better with white grapes than the others. Guessing the more color the more phenols? Found I am better off with zero grapes though. For me they are worse than potato chips. Eating just a few always seems simple and easy. And then I go to the fridge to eat just a few more and find an empty bag that had 3# of grapes when I started. This can happen with any fruit. Grapes are the worst by far though.