Quote from lil chick on July 31, 2020, 11:38 am

I wonder what fat out there most closely resembles the fat in mothers milk?  Perhaps the fat in dairy, or the fat in meat.

Quote from romaine on July 31, 2020, 1:11 pm

@lil-chick.   Besides lard are there other meat fats that are easy to get?  Not going to buy or use lard - not an option at all and I've already posted why I don't like pork on the forum.    According to the HHE recipe, there would still need to be fat added to whole dairy and I from what I've read, sunflower seed oil is one of the less problematic ones.  Olive oil seems to be regarded as a good one here too if you can find a trustworthy source.   I would consider butter too I guess but it is so high in vitamin A isn't it?   Or at least aren't most?   A very popular brand/variety of formula is Similac pro advance.   It uses high oleic safflower oil, soy oil and coconut oil for fat.  (There are other fats in it but account for less than 2%) The dairy is non fat in it.  I'm thinking sunflower oil added to whole dairy would be much superior. Plus some other stuff to of course but just talking about the fats for now.   

Below are the ingredient lists of a couple of formulas  if anyone cares to look.  Similac is a very popular one so I included it.  As you can see they add beta carotene and lutein too.   It just looks like extremely gross stuff to me.  Below the Similac list is the ingredient list for Enfamil Enspire which is supposed to be much closer to breast milk but what has what I consider bad fats too, and is 40 bucks a 20 ounces container- seems like a lot of money to me.  

Similac pro advance: Nonfat Milk, Lactose, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Whey Protein Concentrate, Soy Oil, Coconut Oil. Less than 2% of: C. Cohnii Oil, M. Alpina Oil, 2'-Fucosyllactose, Short-chain Fructooligosaccharides, Beta-Carotene, Lutein, Potassium Citrate, Calcium Carbonate, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Bitartrate, Choline Chloride, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Salt, Taurine, Inositol, Zinc Sulfate, Mixed Tocopherols, d-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Palmitate, Copper Sulfate, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D3, Vitamin B12, Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Hydroxide, and Nucleotides (Adenosine 5’-Monophosphate, Cytidine 5’-Monophosphate, Disodium Guanosine 5’-Monophosphate, Disodium Uridine 5’-Monophosphate).

Enfamil enspire:  NONFAT MILK, LACTOSE, VEGETABLE OIL (PALM OLEIN, COCONUT, SOY, AND HIGH OLEIC SUNFLOWER OILS), WHEY PROTEIN-LIPID CONCENTRATE* (MILK), WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, AND LESS THAN 2%: LACTOFERRIN, GALACTOOLIGOSACCHARIDES**, POLYDEXTROSE**, MORTIERELLA ALPINA OIL^†, CRYPTHECODINIUM COHNII OIL^‡, POTASSIUM CITRATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, CALCIUM PHOSPHATE, SODIUM CHLORIDE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, FERROUS SULFATE, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, ZINC SULFATE, CUPRIC SULFATE, MANGANESE SULFATE, POTASSIUM IODIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, SOY LECITHIN, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, ASCORBIC ACID, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN, THIAMIN HYDROCHLORIDE, VITAMIN D₃, VITAMIN B₆ HYDROCHLORIDE, FOLIC ACID, VITAMIN K₁, BIOTIN, VITAMIN B₁₂, INOSITOL, VITAMIN E ACETATE, VITAMIN A PALMITATE, NUCLEOTIDES (CYTIDINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE, DISODIUM URIDINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE, ADENOSINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE, DISODIUM GUANOSINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE), TAURINE, L-CARNITINE.

Quote from lil chick on July 31, 2020, 1:38 pm

Here is some more data, ideas... I just read this recipe that is based on evaoorated goat milk and rice syrup.   Evap goat milk is something I've seen available at health food stores, so I bet it could be purchased online.  I think one of the interesting things about starting with it is you can fiddle with the richness.  https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-eating/feeding-infants-toddlers/goat-milk ... however, of course, I think there would be some benefits to raw that wouldn't be there in evap.    It's so much simpler than other recipes, but I'm thinking it's older.  Perhaps newer recipes were built on top of it to fix problems.

quote:

MEYENBERG POWDERED GOAT MILK BEGINNING RECIPE

(12 oz container) Powdered Goat Milk	Water	Rice Syrup	Calories (per oz.)
6 Scoops (84 g)	36 oz.	6 ½ Tbsp.	20
As baby matures during their first year, gradually increase ratio of powder to water until whole milk level is reached (see below). Discontinue adding rice syrup (carbohydrates).
To reconstitute to Whole Milk
Powdered Goat Milk	Water	Calories (per oz.)
8 scoops (112 g)	32 oz.	19

MEYENBERG EVAPORATED GOAT MILK BEGINNING RECIPE

Evaporated Goat Milk	Water	Rice Syrup	Calories (per oz.)
12 oz.	24 oz.	5 Tbsp.	20
As baby matures during their first year, gradually increase ratio of evaporated goat milk to water until whole milk level is reached (see below). Discontinue adding rice syrup (carbohydrates).
To reconstitute to Whole Milk
Evaporated Goat Milk	Water	Calories (per oz.)
12 oz	12 oz.	19

Alternative carbohydrates include corn syrup and simple table sugar.
Table Sugar = 48 calories per Tbsp.
Corn Syrup = 60 calories per Tbsp.
Rice Syrup = 42 calories per Tbsp.

NOTE: Any time goat milk is the sole source of nutrition, we recommend the feeding of a vitamin supplement. Always consult your healthcare provider before using goat milk formula.

end quote

Quote from puddleduck on July 31, 2020, 5:36 pm

@romaine I do not understand why they’d put soy oil into infant formula. 😕

This stuff is great for building the brain (according to Linda Kane and Brian Peskin, anyway 😝), if you can get it: https://www.florahealth.com/us/products/sunflower-oil/ I ordered it from Vitacost, and they shipped it with cold packs. It was super fresh and tastes delicious. On wikipedia at least it says there’s a lot more omega 6 in human milk than cow or goat milk.

There’s lauric acid in coconut oil.

Quote from tim on July 31, 2020, 9:49 pm

The WAPF formula is nutritionally unsound and also has food safety issues, I would strongly advise anyone against using it.

I really doubt anyone is going to come up with a nutritionally sound better alternative to commercial formula in their home kitchen.

Is there no company doing a more scientifically sound formula that contains better ingredients like K2, natural Vit E and natural Vit A? If not, there is a reason for that. I suspect that most of the people that complain about formula having low quality ingredients would complain about the price of a high quality formula should a company produce it due to consumer demand.

Quote from puddleduck on August 1, 2020, 5:55 am

Apparently Holle in Germany makes organic infant formula without lutein:

https://organicstart.com/holle/

Quote from puddleduck on August 1, 2020, 5:59 am

And organic formulas by Hipp from the UK also don’t contain lutein:

https://www.buyorganicformula.com/collections/hipp

Quote from lil chick on August 4, 2020, 5:08 am

@romaine

A friend who has made formula has gotten back to me with some info that I hope helps.  She isn't a dietician or anything like that.  But some interesting tidbits here.  She said her baby had reflux.

She says the most important thing she learned about the cows milk formula is:

 

1)  the level of dilution

2) adding lactose (human milk is much higher in lactose, and it is thought to be key to brain development),

3)  the various added fats (to get to the right fatty acid profile), and 

4)  the acerola powder for Vitamin C.  

 

Gelatin isn't vital, but it's very good 

 

The whey and the cod liver oil really are "optional." In her case, she couldn't use either because of food sensitivities

 

The nutritional yeast is somewhere in between.  It's very good if baby can tolerate it. If not, it is a good idea to add some other vitamin B source (and they do make baby Vitamin B supplements...)

 

On the goat's milk formula, there MUST be something to provide Vitamin B12 or you risk serious consequences.   She used desiccated liver powder, and her baby thrived.  If someone is concerned about the Vitamin A levels, another route would be baby Vitamin B supplements, or a single drop of a natural high B12 liquid (She did the math with those, and it was hard to not overdose using adult supplements, even just a drop)

She said hopefully this can be helpful as you do your own research.  

Quote from Tanveen on July 27, 2025, 5:00 pm

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLvY0AHSwdm/

Bomilq - lab grown breast milk