Quote from Guest on February 15, 2019, 5:40 pm

I have read somewhere about zinc assisting the removal of vitamin A, otherwise as mentioned vitamin a can continue to be recycled by the body and be stuck in a continuos loop?

 

Alex.

Quote from Guest on February 15, 2019, 7:49 pm

Quote from Guest on February 15, 2019, 5:40 pm

I have read somewhere about zinc assisting the removal of vitamin A, otherwise as mentioned vitamin a can continue to be recycled by the body and be stuck in a continuos loop?

 

Alex.

Yes, zinc is supposed to help make retinol binding protein which according to Dr. Smith and some others, is important for keeping vitamin A from being even more toxic.     Along with taking vitamin A and liver supplements and eating high carotenoid foods, I took a zinc supplement for a few years, then had a blood test.  It showed that I was really low in zinc so I guess the amount of zinc that I took wasn't enough to offset the increase in the toxicity caused by the retinoids and carotenoids.   I still take zinc after doing the low vitamin A diet and still don't feel well so it isn't the cure but hopefully it is helpful.

Quote from Patti on February 16, 2019, 5:59 pm

Quote from Guest on February 15, 2019, 4:39 pm

Patti,

I'm curious if you've stuck with the low A since then and how long your benzo withdrawal type symptoms lasted in the beginning.

My husband has been off lorazepam for 9 years now, but has been in a bad setback for 5 years after using an essential oil long term. He was finally getting better, then last fall we had a bumper crop of butternut squash and tomatoes, and started eating more sweet potatoes, green smoothies, and green juices in an effort to speed up his healing. Ever since then he's gotten worse again, so when I got an email from Matt Stone about Vitamin A I was very interested.

We just started low A a few days ago, and this morning he had his worst flare-up of akathisia that he's had in months. I'm afraid to keep going in case it gets worse.

Anyway, I would love to hear from you about your experience. It would help me out a lot in figuring out what to do next.

Kathy

Hi Kathy,

I've stuck with low-A diet, very strictly, for 3.5 months. I have definitely had a number of flares of benzo withdrawal type symptoms. In fact, just this week, HORRIBLE insomnia. I'd sure like to think that if I just "soldier on", everything will get better. Theoretically, we all *should* improve as we get the A out... but I'm also kind of baffled right now. There are a number of people here in this forum who have really seen dramatic improvement in all kinds of symptoms (not benzo related), but there are others who haven't. I feel like I've give it a good shot, and I do still believe in the basic theory. But, I'm going to move myself on to the "next phase", for me. I stumbled upon a post elsewhere here in Grant's discussion forum that led me to researching a plant-based low-fat diet, as per Dr. John McDougall (just Google his name, if you're interested). I'm planning to transition to that plan, as I have other issues that just are not resolving, plus I'm also caring for my young adult daughter (who has been on the diet with me) who is disabled, and has terrible psoriasis and other skin issues that have not improved at all.. in fact, are worse if anything. I know some folks here would tell me to "hang in there" but I'm just feeling like something isn't quite right here & I have to make a change. This just isn't sustainable (for US). Don't get me wrong, I still very much believe in the A toxicity theory and I'll NEVER supplement A again. Plus, I'm super happy to have already had dairy and eggs out of our diet this whole time. I'm also going to avoid (indefinitely) the higher vitamin A veggies and fruits. In all the benzo support groups, I've always been told that benzo drugs are not stored in the body, so not "released" later from the liver or body fat, but there is definitely something that comes back to haunt and affects one in the same way. Maybe all along, there has been a partnership between toxic A and the GABA receptors? Some kind of evil partnership! And then, as we start unloading the A, that whole system gets re-activated and you experience it like a withdrawal flare?? I couldn't begin to guess! It must be really frustrating for your husband to feel like that after all that time. Good luck to both of you!

Quote from somuch4food on February 16, 2019, 6:43 pm

@patti if you feel that it's definately not working, please move on. I think you have the right attitude. You have learnt something here, but you haven't found the missing piece of your puzzle. I wish you good luck. In my case, it seems to be lutein and not really A that is my main problem, but a lutein free diet is close to a low A diet.

If I were you, I would maybe give it another shot during as winter can be tricky.

Quote from tim on February 16, 2019, 6:49 pm

Regardless of whether chronic VA toxicity is contributing to many of our health problems the body still needs to be working correctly to achieve health and biochemical pathways are often severely compromised in people who are ill.

The body needs all the support we can give it which includes all the essential micronutrients in adequate amounts (from food not supplements) and minimization of toxins (so many toxins like glyphosate working against us along with plant toxins).

Adequate bile production and bile flow is essential so we need plenty of fat and salt in the diet.

I have seen people in this forum discussing eating soy instead of beef here and other bad ideas. Soy inhibits thyroid function and does not supply complete protein or b12.

If one is not consuming nuts (in small/moderate quantities) one is missing out on vit E to assist with healing. If one is not consuming low VA fruit and veges (in moderate quantities) one is missing out on vit C and B vitamins to assist with detoxification pathways and healing. I fail to see how removing seafood from the diet completely is a good idea either, some seafood is low VA and no seafood in the diet means no natural iodine, no guaranteed source of selenium and no DHA/EPA.

Quote from Guest on February 16, 2019, 7:32 pm

I’d love to get a list of foods with Lutein. Where can I find that? I do feel carotenoids give me more problems.

Quote from Guest on February 16, 2019, 7:57 pm

Quote from tim on February 16, 2019, 6:49 pm

Regardless of whether chronic VA toxicity is contributing to many of our health problems the body still needs to be working correctly to achieve health and biochemical pathways are often severely compromised in people who are ill.

The body needs all the support we can give it which includes all the essential micronutrients in adequate amounts (from food not supplements) and minimization of toxins (so many toxins like glyphosate working against us along with plant toxins).

Adequate bile production and bile flow is essential so we need plenty of fat and salt in the diet.

I have seen people in this forum discussing eating soy instead of beef here and other bad ideas. Soy inhibits thyroid function and does not supply complete protein or b12.

If one is not consuming nuts (in small/moderate quantities) one is missing out on vit E to assist with healing. If one is not consuming low VA fruit and veges (in moderate quantities) one is missing out on vit C and B vitamins to assist with detoxification pathways and healing. I fail to see how removing seafood from the diet completely is a good idea either, some seafood is low VA and no seafood in the diet means no natural iodine, no guaranteed source of selenium and no DHA/EPA.

Smith says seafood has many toxins other than A (and worms) because of pollution.   He thinks essential fatty acids can be gotten elsewhere.   How many primates or people for that matter in the past had seafood as part of their diet?   I don't know but at least a significant portion of humans didn't and maybe hardly any other primate.   Not sure how fast evolution and adaptation could have worked on humans requiring fish, but it doesn't seem likely to me that it would have to be part of our diet in order to be healthy.

Iodine and selenium can be found in low vitamin A foods, albeit in small amounts though if not exposed to toxins, you probably don't need much.

Quote from tim on February 16, 2019, 10:15 pm

All food can contain toxins, seafood does not stand out as an exceptional source that should be avoided because of that. Scallops have the lowest VA and mercury content out of all seafood analysed, squid is good too. I guarantee that we have much worse sources of pollutants in our diet and environment than eating scallops and squid.

DHA/EPA, Iodine and Selenium are found in eggs and seafood. You can also find these nutrients reliably in reptiles, fresh water fish and insects. Hominids all the way back to our primitive ape ancestors were eating these things.

The ocean contains all trace elements needed for life to prosper, most of the time land does not. Before the Neolithic, hunter gathers roamed over large areas eating flora and fauna that was native to different soil types so even if they never saw the ocean they were not likely to suffer from mineral deficiencies.

Selenium in other foods is a very unreliable source and depends on whether it is in the soil, often it is not. Most Australian and New Zealand soils are completely missing Selenium for example. Iodine is also very unreliable from other foods which is why salt gets iodized, before that there were cretins in every town.

So unless one is going to find some reptiles or insects and eat them whole I suggest eating seafood for these nutrients.

Quote from tim on February 16, 2019, 10:33 pm

I want to add that I am not saying to eat any kind of seafood. I am saying that I am eating a moderate amount of low VA low mercury seafood in the form of squid and scallops and explaining why in case it makes sense to others and helps others.

Also, fish oil and cod liver oil is an abominable idea purely done for profit and I would never recommend anyone takes these supplements. Just LOL at those that claim that CLO is a food. Puke.