I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Please
Login to create posts and topics.
How does A leave the body?
Quote from
Liz on February 23, 2019, 11:23 pm
Quote from
ZJ on February 23, 2019, 5:12 pm
UV light may deplete it as well. Nothing makes me feel as good as an hour of full sun. Which is hard to get in the winter living in the mountains but if it's 30+, clear, and no wind I'm out there.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12796507_Ultraviolet_irradiation_depletes_cellular_retinol_and_alters_the_metabolism_of_retinoic_acid_in_cultured_human_keratinocytes_and_melanocytes
Vitamin A is an intrinsic modulator of proliferation and differentiation in human epidermis, and may be destroyed by ultraviolet radiation (UVR) impinging on the skin. To identify the deleterious effects of a perturbed cellular vitamin A status, we investigated the endogenous retinoid concentrations and the metabolism of [3H]retinol and all-trans [3H]retinoic acid in cultured human keratinocytes and melanocytes exposed to UVR, using high performance liquid chromatography. Before UVR the retinoid content was similar in keratinocytes and melanocytes, but the uptake of [3H]retinol was three-fold higher and the uptake of [3H]retinoic acid was 10-fold higher in the melanocytes. In both cell types, UVR (UVA 360 mJ/cm2 plus UVB 140 mJ/cm2) instantaneously reduced the concentration of retinol by about 50% and that of 3,4-didehydroretinol by about 20%. The retinoid concentrations returned to normal within 1-2 days post-irradiation, despite there being no overt increase in the uptake of [3H]retinol or the biosynthesis of 3,4-didehydroretinol. However, in both types of irradiated cells, the accumulation of the biologically most active metabolite, all-trans [3H]retinoic acid, was about 60% higher than in control cells. Furthermore, the metabolism of authentically supplied [3H]retinoic acid was reduced, especially in irradiated keratinocytes, which probably contributed to the restoration of retinoid levels after UV exposure.
The retinoid levels were restored only a few days later though, with retinoic acid, due to slowed down retinoid metabolism in the cells post radiation, and the retinoic acid accumulation was then 60% higher than in the control cells.
This raises new questions, like why did the cells slow down the retinoid metabolism after depletion causing the retinoic acid uptake to increase?
Quote from
ZJ on February 23, 2019, 5:12 pm
UV light may deplete it as well. Nothing makes me feel as good as an hour of full sun. Which is hard to get in the winter living in the mountains but if it's 30+, clear, and no wind I'm out there.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12796507_Ultraviolet_irradiation_depletes_cellular_retinol_and_alters_the_metabolism_of_retinoic_acid_in_cultured_human_keratinocytes_and_melanocytes
Vitamin A is an intrinsic modulator of proliferation and differentiation in human epidermis, and may be destroyed by ultraviolet radiation (UVR) impinging on the skin. To identify the deleterious effects of a perturbed cellular vitamin A status, we investigated the endogenous retinoid concentrations and the metabolism of [3H]retinol and all-trans [3H]retinoic acid in cultured human keratinocytes and melanocytes exposed to UVR, using high performance liquid chromatography. Before UVR the retinoid content was similar in keratinocytes and melanocytes, but the uptake of [3H]retinol was three-fold higher and the uptake of [3H]retinoic acid was 10-fold higher in the melanocytes. In both cell types, UVR (UVA 360 mJ/cm2 plus UVB 140 mJ/cm2) instantaneously reduced the concentration of retinol by about 50% and that of 3,4-didehydroretinol by about 20%. The retinoid concentrations returned to normal within 1-2 days post-irradiation, despite there being no overt increase in the uptake of [3H]retinol or the biosynthesis of 3,4-didehydroretinol. However, in both types of irradiated cells, the accumulation of the biologically most active metabolite, all-trans [3H]retinoic acid, was about 60% higher than in control cells. Furthermore, the metabolism of authentically supplied [3H]retinoic acid was reduced, especially in irradiated keratinocytes, which probably contributed to the restoration of retinoid levels after UV exposure.
The retinoid levels were restored only a few days later though, with retinoic acid, due to slowed down retinoid metabolism in the cells post radiation, and the retinoic acid accumulation was then 60% higher than in the control cells.
This raises new questions, like why did the cells slow down the retinoid metabolism after depletion causing the retinoic acid uptake to increase?
Quote from
tim on February 23, 2019, 11:38 pm
Quote from Guest on February 23, 2019, 5:32 pm
Since going low A, my scalp/hair has gotten extremely oily. I am 53 and I have a history of oily skin and scalp which subsided some what before going low A. Same story with acne. I had also wondered if oily skin and pimples where a way to get rid of A.
More oily? Oh no. How long have you been low A for?
Do you think it could still be release of VA from body stores that is causing that?
Quote from Guest on February 23, 2019, 5:32 pm
Since going low A, my scalp/hair has gotten extremely oily. I am 53 and I have a history of oily skin and scalp which subsided some what before going low A. Same story with acne. I had also wondered if oily skin and pimples where a way to get rid of A.
More oily? Oh no. How long have you been low A for?
Do you think it could still be release of VA from body stores that is causing that?
Quote from
tim on February 23, 2019, 11:43 pm
Thanks for the answers guys.
I've been on an almost zero A diet for about 3 weeks and most of that time I have been feeling physically and mentally tired and headachey.
It is almost definitely to do with the A restriction because my diet has all other important nutrients.
I'm pretty sure there is no way these are VA deficiency symptoms right?
I was hoping the oily skin would be quite responsive to low A but if I'm having these intense symptoms it can only be lots of A being released into my bloodsteam right? Which would mean I cannot expect skin improvement until that gets cleared.
Thanks for the answers guys.
I've been on an almost zero A diet for about 3 weeks and most of that time I have been feeling physically and mentally tired and headachey.
It is almost definitely to do with the A restriction because my diet has all other important nutrients.
I'm pretty sure there is no way these are VA deficiency symptoms right?
I was hoping the oily skin would be quite responsive to low A but if I'm having these intense symptoms it can only be lots of A being released into my bloodsteam right? Which would mean I cannot expect skin improvement until that gets cleared.
Tim,
Hang in there and stick with it. And no, I don't think you should be concerned about Vitamin A deficiency. It just going to take some to get Vitamin A all cleared out. Good luck and keep posted!
Tim,
Hang in there and stick with it. And no, I don't think you should be concerned about Vitamin A deficiency. It just going to take some to get Vitamin A all cleared out. Good luck and keep posted!
Quote from
Orion on February 24, 2019, 5:58 am
@tim-2 ya hang in there, the sebum is reducing for me, but everyone is different, I am committed to a year and probably for life now, since the results are just to good. Face has the most sebaceous glands, so will take longer to normalize I think.
@tim-2 ya hang in there, the sebum is reducing for me, but everyone is different, I am committed to a year and probably for life now, since the results are just to good. Face has the most sebaceous glands, so will take longer to normalize I think.
Quote from
Orion on February 24, 2019, 6:05 am
Quote from
tim on February 23, 2019, 11:38 pm
Quote from Guest on February 23, 2019, 5:32 pm
Since going low A, my scalp/hair has gotten extremely oily. I am 53 and I have a history of oily skin and scalp which subsided some what before going low A. Same story with acne. I had also wondered if oily skin and pimples where a way to get rid of A.
More oily? Oh no. How long have you been low A for?
Do you think it could still be release of VA from body stores that is causing that?
I think going low A is like being on accutane again for a short while, its like the initial purge that people get on RetinA and accutane. I am seeing my skin clear and sebum reduce, but still need more months to see if it will continue.
Pretty sure at this point that vitamin A overload causes acne, so when we deplete and release it, those that had acne issues as teens for example will get some of those symptoms back before healing.
Quote from
tim on February 23, 2019, 11:38 pm
Quote from Guest on February 23, 2019, 5:32 pm
Since going low A, my scalp/hair has gotten extremely oily. I am 53 and I have a history of oily skin and scalp which subsided some what before going low A. Same story with acne. I had also wondered if oily skin and pimples where a way to get rid of A.
More oily? Oh no. How long have you been low A for?
Do you think it could still be release of VA from body stores that is causing that?
I think going low A is like being on accutane again for a short while, its like the initial purge that people get on RetinA and accutane. I am seeing my skin clear and sebum reduce, but still need more months to see if it will continue.
Pretty sure at this point that vitamin A overload causes acne, so when we deplete and release it, those that had acne issues as teens for example will get some of those symptoms back before healing.
Quote from
ZJ on February 24, 2019, 9:06 am
Quote from
Liz on February 23, 2019, 11:23 pm
Quote from
ZJ on February 23, 2019, 5:12 pm
UV light may deplete it as well. Nothing makes me feel as good as an hour of full sun. Which is hard to get in the winter living in the mountains but if it's 30+, clear, and no wind I'm out there.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12796507_Ultraviolet_irradiation_depletes_cellular_retinol_and_alters_the_metabolism_of_retinoic_acid_in_cultured_human_keratinocytes_and_melanocytes
Vitamin A is an intrinsic modulator of proliferation and differentiation in human epidermis, and may be destroyed by ultraviolet radiation (UVR) impinging on the skin. To identify the deleterious effects of a perturbed cellular vitamin A status, we investigated the endogenous retinoid concentrations and the metabolism of [3H]retinol and all-trans [3H]retinoic acid in cultured human keratinocytes and melanocytes exposed to UVR, using high performance liquid chromatography. Before UVR the retinoid content was similar in keratinocytes and melanocytes, but the uptake of [3H]retinol was three-fold higher and the uptake of [3H]retinoic acid was 10-fold higher in the melanocytes. In both cell types, UVR (UVA 360 mJ/cm2 plus UVB 140 mJ/cm2) instantaneously reduced the concentration of retinol by about 50% and that of 3,4-didehydroretinol by about 20%. The retinoid concentrations returned to normal within 1-2 days post-irradiation, despite there being no overt increase in the uptake of [3H]retinol or the biosynthesis of 3,4-didehydroretinol. However, in both types of irradiated cells, the accumulation of the biologically most active metabolite, all-trans [3H]retinoic acid, was about 60% higher than in control cells. Furthermore, the metabolism of authentically supplied [3H]retinoic acid was reduced, especially in irradiated keratinocytes, which probably contributed to the restoration of retinoid levels after UV exposure.
The retinoid levels were restored only a few days later though, with retinoic acid, due to slowed down retinoid metabolism in the cells post radiation, and the retinoic acid accumulation was then 60% higher than in the control cells.
This raises new questions, like why did the cells slow down the retinoid metabolism after depletion causing the retinoic acid uptake to increase?
You would expect the levels to be restored until you have no more bodily stores to replace them with. Who knows why the levels were higher after irradiation? But the important thing is that the total bodily stores are decreasing even if some specific tissue stores are increasing temporarily. Maybe the body in its attempt to dispose of it as quickly as possible sees an opportunity get rid of some and gets a little over excited? Garrett Smith posted something awhile ago this phenomenon and it seems plausible to me.
https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/case-study-example-of-stored-poison-vitamin-a-dumping-into-the-system-protracted-hypervitaminosis-a-following-long-term-low-level-intake/
Quote from
Liz on February 23, 2019, 11:23 pm
Quote from
ZJ on February 23, 2019, 5:12 pm
UV light may deplete it as well. Nothing makes me feel as good as an hour of full sun. Which is hard to get in the winter living in the mountains but if it's 30+, clear, and no wind I'm out there.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12796507_Ultraviolet_irradiation_depletes_cellular_retinol_and_alters_the_metabolism_of_retinoic_acid_in_cultured_human_keratinocytes_and_melanocytes
Vitamin A is an intrinsic modulator of proliferation and differentiation in human epidermis, and may be destroyed by ultraviolet radiation (UVR) impinging on the skin. To identify the deleterious effects of a perturbed cellular vitamin A status, we investigated the endogenous retinoid concentrations and the metabolism of [3H]retinol and all-trans [3H]retinoic acid in cultured human keratinocytes and melanocytes exposed to UVR, using high performance liquid chromatography. Before UVR the retinoid content was similar in keratinocytes and melanocytes, but the uptake of [3H]retinol was three-fold higher and the uptake of [3H]retinoic acid was 10-fold higher in the melanocytes. In both cell types, UVR (UVA 360 mJ/cm2 plus UVB 140 mJ/cm2) instantaneously reduced the concentration of retinol by about 50% and that of 3,4-didehydroretinol by about 20%. The retinoid concentrations returned to normal within 1-2 days post-irradiation, despite there being no overt increase in the uptake of [3H]retinol or the biosynthesis of 3,4-didehydroretinol. However, in both types of irradiated cells, the accumulation of the biologically most active metabolite, all-trans [3H]retinoic acid, was about 60% higher than in control cells. Furthermore, the metabolism of authentically supplied [3H]retinoic acid was reduced, especially in irradiated keratinocytes, which probably contributed to the restoration of retinoid levels after UV exposure.
The retinoid levels were restored only a few days later though, with retinoic acid, due to slowed down retinoid metabolism in the cells post radiation, and the retinoic acid accumulation was then 60% higher than in the control cells.
This raises new questions, like why did the cells slow down the retinoid metabolism after depletion causing the retinoic acid uptake to increase?
You would expect the levels to be restored until you have no more bodily stores to replace them with. Who knows why the levels were higher after irradiation? But the important thing is that the total bodily stores are decreasing even if some specific tissue stores are increasing temporarily. Maybe the body in its attempt to dispose of it as quickly as possible sees an opportunity get rid of some and gets a little over excited? Garrett Smith posted something awhile ago this phenomenon and it seems plausible to me.
https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/case-study-example-of-stored-poison-vitamin-a-dumping-into-the-system-protracted-hypervitaminosis-a-following-long-term-low-level-intake/
Quote from
tim on February 24, 2019, 3:51 pm
@doublecapricorn and @orion, thank you for the responses, I really appreciate it, it is really tough going at the moment, the fatigue makes it difficult to work but I'm excited that what is causing these symptoms is leaving my body.
@doublecapricorn and @orion, thank you for the responses, I really appreciate it, it is really tough going at the moment, the fatigue makes it difficult to work but I'm excited that what is causing these symptoms is leaving my body.
Quote from
tim on February 24, 2019, 4:07 pm
Quote from
Orion on February 24, 2019, 6:05 am
Quote from
tim on February 23, 2019, 11:38 pm
Quote from Guest on February 23, 2019, 5:32 pm
Since going low A, my scalp/hair has gotten extremely oily. I am 53 and I have a history of oily skin and scalp which subsided some what before going low A. Same story with acne. I had also wondered if oily skin and pimples where a way to get rid of A.
More oily? Oh no. How long have you been low A for?
Do you think it could still be release of VA from body stores that is causing that?
I think going low A is like being on accutane again for a short while, its like the initial purge that people get on RetinA and accutane. I am seeing my skin clear and sebum reduce, but still need more months to see if it will continue.
Pretty sure at this point that vitamin A overload causes acne, so when we deplete and release it, those that had acne issues as teens for example will get some of those symptoms back before healing.
That is great news.
It is claimed that sugar and high carb foods contribute to acne and excess sebum, perhaps VA toxicity interacts with carb metabolism in the body to create this effect.
Do you have any thoughts on why depleting VA creates a temporary overload in the body? It is because of more toxic forms being released like RA or because the body overcompensates in response to low intake?
When people enter ketosis for the first time in their lives through a ketogenic diet or starvation the body tends to produce more ketones than necessary for a period before production normalizes hence that line of thought.
This is probably a first for my body being deprived of dietary VA.
Quote from
Orion on February 24, 2019, 6:05 am
Quote from
tim on February 23, 2019, 11:38 pm
Quote from Guest on February 23, 2019, 5:32 pm
Since going low A, my scalp/hair has gotten extremely oily. I am 53 and I have a history of oily skin and scalp which subsided some what before going low A. Same story with acne. I had also wondered if oily skin and pimples where a way to get rid of A.
More oily? Oh no. How long have you been low A for?
Do you think it could still be release of VA from body stores that is causing that?
I think going low A is like being on accutane again for a short while, its like the initial purge that people get on RetinA and accutane. I am seeing my skin clear and sebum reduce, but still need more months to see if it will continue.
Pretty sure at this point that vitamin A overload causes acne, so when we deplete and release it, those that had acne issues as teens for example will get some of those symptoms back before healing.
That is great news.
It is claimed that sugar and high carb foods contribute to acne and excess sebum, perhaps VA toxicity interacts with carb metabolism in the body to create this effect.
Do you have any thoughts on why depleting VA creates a temporary overload in the body? It is because of more toxic forms being released like RA or because the body overcompensates in response to low intake?
When people enter ketosis for the first time in their lives through a ketogenic diet or starvation the body tends to produce more ketones than necessary for a period before production normalizes hence that line of thought.
This is probably a first for my body being deprived of dietary VA.
Quote from
Liz on February 24, 2019, 10:02 pm
Quote from
ZJ on February 24, 2019, 9:06 am
Quote from
Liz on February 23, 2019, 11:23 pm
Quote from
ZJ on February 23, 2019, 5:12 pm
UV light may deplete it as well. Nothing makes me feel as good as an hour of full sun. Which is hard to get in the winter living in the mountains but if it's 30+, clear, and no wind I'm out there.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12796507_Ultraviolet_irradiation_depletes_cellular_retinol_and_alters_the_metabolism_of_retinoic_acid_in_cultured_human_keratinocytes_and_melanocytes
Vitamin A is an intrinsic modulator of proliferation and differentiation in human epidermis, and may be destroyed by ultraviolet radiation (UVR) impinging on the skin. To identify the deleterious effects of a perturbed cellular vitamin A status, we investigated the endogenous retinoid concentrations and the metabolism of [3H]retinol and all-trans [3H]retinoic acid in cultured human keratinocytes and melanocytes exposed to UVR, using high performance liquid chromatography. Before UVR the retinoid content was similar in keratinocytes and melanocytes, but the uptake of [3H]retinol was three-fold higher and the uptake of [3H]retinoic acid was 10-fold higher in the melanocytes. In both cell types, UVR (UVA 360 mJ/cm2 plus UVB 140 mJ/cm2) instantaneously reduced the concentration of retinol by about 50% and that of 3,4-didehydroretinol by about 20%. The retinoid concentrations returned to normal within 1-2 days post-irradiation, despite there being no overt increase in the uptake of [3H]retinol or the biosynthesis of 3,4-didehydroretinol. However, in both types of irradiated cells, the accumulation of the biologically most active metabolite, all-trans [3H]retinoic acid, was about 60% higher than in control cells. Furthermore, the metabolism of authentically supplied [3H]retinoic acid was reduced, especially in irradiated keratinocytes, which probably contributed to the restoration of retinoid levels after UV exposure.
The retinoid levels were restored only a few days later though, with retinoic acid, due to slowed down retinoid metabolism in the cells post radiation, and the retinoic acid accumulation was then 60% higher than in the control cells.
This raises new questions, like why did the cells slow down the retinoid metabolism after depletion causing the retinoic acid uptake to increase?
You would expect the levels to be restored until you have no more bodily stores to replace them with. Who knows why the levels were higher after irradiation? But the important thing is that the total bodily stores are decreasing even if some specific tissue stores are increasing temporarily. Maybe the body in its attempt to dispose of it as quickly as possible sees an opportunity get rid of some and gets a little over excited? Garrett Smith posted something awhile ago this phenomenon and it seems plausible to me.
https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/case-study-example-of-stored-poison-vitamin-a-dumping-into-the-system-protracted-hypervitaminosis-a-following-long-term-low-level-intake/
Totally plausible. I am face-palming myself now 😂
Quote from
ZJ on February 24, 2019, 9:06 am
Quote from
Liz on February 23, 2019, 11:23 pm
Quote from
ZJ on February 23, 2019, 5:12 pm
UV light may deplete it as well. Nothing makes me feel as good as an hour of full sun. Which is hard to get in the winter living in the mountains but if it's 30+, clear, and no wind I'm out there.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12796507_Ultraviolet_irradiation_depletes_cellular_retinol_and_alters_the_metabolism_of_retinoic_acid_in_cultured_human_keratinocytes_and_melanocytes
Vitamin A is an intrinsic modulator of proliferation and differentiation in human epidermis, and may be destroyed by ultraviolet radiation (UVR) impinging on the skin. To identify the deleterious effects of a perturbed cellular vitamin A status, we investigated the endogenous retinoid concentrations and the metabolism of [3H]retinol and all-trans [3H]retinoic acid in cultured human keratinocytes and melanocytes exposed to UVR, using high performance liquid chromatography. Before UVR the retinoid content was similar in keratinocytes and melanocytes, but the uptake of [3H]retinol was three-fold higher and the uptake of [3H]retinoic acid was 10-fold higher in the melanocytes. In both cell types, UVR (UVA 360 mJ/cm2 plus UVB 140 mJ/cm2) instantaneously reduced the concentration of retinol by about 50% and that of 3,4-didehydroretinol by about 20%. The retinoid concentrations returned to normal within 1-2 days post-irradiation, despite there being no overt increase in the uptake of [3H]retinol or the biosynthesis of 3,4-didehydroretinol. However, in both types of irradiated cells, the accumulation of the biologically most active metabolite, all-trans [3H]retinoic acid, was about 60% higher than in control cells. Furthermore, the metabolism of authentically supplied [3H]retinoic acid was reduced, especially in irradiated keratinocytes, which probably contributed to the restoration of retinoid levels after UV exposure.
The retinoid levels were restored only a few days later though, with retinoic acid, due to slowed down retinoid metabolism in the cells post radiation, and the retinoic acid accumulation was then 60% higher than in the control cells.
This raises new questions, like why did the cells slow down the retinoid metabolism after depletion causing the retinoic acid uptake to increase?
You would expect the levels to be restored until you have no more bodily stores to replace them with. Who knows why the levels were higher after irradiation? But the important thing is that the total bodily stores are decreasing even if some specific tissue stores are increasing temporarily. Maybe the body in its attempt to dispose of it as quickly as possible sees an opportunity get rid of some and gets a little over excited? Garrett Smith posted something awhile ago this phenomenon and it seems plausible to me.
https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/case-study-example-of-stored-poison-vitamin-a-dumping-into-the-system-protracted-hypervitaminosis-a-following-long-term-low-level-intake/
Totally plausible. I am face-palming myself now 😂
