I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
hypercalcemia = detox symtpoms?
I keep thinking of the child in that study who presented at the hospital with serious VA poisoning. One of his symptoms was too much calcium in the blood. Could our detox symptoms be down to calcium being released from the bad places which it has landed? (important changes). (the renovation of calculus on teeth, creaky joints, hardened arteries, stiff muscles etc etc)
A quick google tells me:
Mild hypercalcemia may not result in symptoms, while more serious hypercalcemia can cause:
- Excessive thirst and frequent urination. Too much calcium means that the kidneys have to work harder. As a result, a person may urinate more often, leading to dehydration and increased thirst.
- Stomach pain and digestive problems. Too much calcium can cause an upset stomach, abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, and constipation.
- Bone pain and muscle weakness. Hypercalcemia can cause the bones to release too much calcium, leaving them deficient. This abnormal bone activity can lead to pain and muscle weakness.
- Confusion, lethargy, and fatigue. Too much calcium in the blood can affect the brain, causing these symptoms.
- Anxiety and depression. Hypercalcemia may also affect mental health.
- High blood pressure and abnormal heart rhythms. High levels of calcium can increase blood pressure and lead to electrical abnormalities that change the heart's rhythm, adding strain.
What are the antidotes to this? Well, the doctor was prescribing drinking lots of water.
Tim's thread talks about the (Vit D) antidote to this problem.
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/atra-antagonizes-the-action-of-calciferol-in-rats/
It was also mentioned on that thread that vit K is also needed, not just vit D, to build bone. As were other bone building nutrients such as b12, C. (I do worry and distrust supplements at this time. They have gotten many of us into this bind. And, really how can we know what is in them? They could be packed with vit A or other crap. )
Another thought that comes to mind is that calcium binds with oxalates. Are oxalates getting in the way of re-positioning the calcium into the places where it belongs? Is that why avoiding oxalates is helping some?
Didn't Dino also recommend magnesium sources such as young coconut juice? Might that also help?
The article mentioned exercize and strength training because it will build bone. I think this is brilliant actually, and it may be why several of us have said that getting moving helps a lot. Grant has mentioned that he bikes.
I bet the good old animal protein is also important for bone making. Perhaps collagen too. Bone broth FTW?
Vit K and vit D often travel along with Vit A in foods, making it a bit challenging to think of ways to get them.
I suppose we can get D seasonally from the sun, and IF vit D is as hard to get rid of as other fat soluble vities (LOL), I don't see why, with a little effort, we can't store enough in the summer to get through winter. Especially as we get more well. That may be why Grant doesn't seem to need vit D.
I thought that perhaps natto would be an idea, but when I looked at the SELF database, I see that the amount that I'd ever want to eat of natto doesn't deliver any more vit K than the amount of steak I would want to eat. Put another way: I'd much rather eat a large amount of steak than a small amount of natto! Please do note that you have to eat the fat of the the steak to get the vit K! 🙂 And I do see that legumes like black beans have K too. As usual, Grant's diet and lifestyle is deviously brilliant.
It is probably when we deviate (too much) from Grant's simple yet effective ways we can inadvertently miss out on something. Maybe we eat more chicken or we don't exercize or get into the sunlight or we skip the legumes...
Any other ideas?
Speaking of legumes, as many here predicted, I'm doing much better with them (7+ months)! This seems a common enough occurence that it could be something that can be told to all newbies.
1. legumes might be important
2. you might not be able to handle them yet
3, you will and you should!
I know I go on, but I just wanted to say something about how it's kind of irksome. That vitamin A and calcium (hey, nutrition 101!) have been, unknowingly, my adversaries for so long! LOL Talk about ignoring the elephant in the room.
As a dentist, Weston Price believed that the health of a person could be assessed by looking at the teeth.
Teeth are the bones that show.
If you still have dental calculus issues/gingivitis, you are still in the heavy detox/rebuilding stage. The calculus on the teeth probably give you a bit of a vision to the inside of your veins and the inside of your joints and the linings of your nerves etc.
What do you think of that theory? I wonder how Anika's teeth feel?
Smooth or fuzzy teeth? red gums or pale?
Vitamin A in active form is an acid. Calcium release helps buffer against this, hence accutane causing bone issues. Vitamin A is converted to retinoic acid to excrete, while in detox I would suspect lots of calcium is coming out to buffer.
Quote from Orion on December 11, 2019, 8:24 amVitamin A in active form is an acid. Calcium release helps buffer against this, hence accutane causing bone issues. Vitamin A is converted to retinoic acid to excrete, while in detox I would suspect lots of calcium is coming out to buffer.
This is an interesting take on why the calcium is coming out. So I guess my theory differs a bit in that I'm saying the body is doing repair work and moving calcium out of the places it shouldn't be (due to the many years spent VA toxic). And that we can help ourselves by doing the things that will support healthy, proper re-strengthening of bones/teeth.
If this is all about buffering acid, I suppose some more of Dino's suggestions are smart. Like breathing and getting other minerals and taking days off from meat.
I suppose the proof is in the pudding. What works might inform us about what is happening. And it could even be a mix. I suppose there are some pretty big differences between Grant's and Dino's suggestions.
Vitamin A toxicity exacerbates D deficiency. D deficiency causes parathyroid hormone to stimulate the release of calcium from bones into serum and can cause mild high blood calcium. Retinoic acid isn't present in large enough amounts to cause any important acidic effect imo.
Even carotenoids in the diet can inhibit Vit D from healing rickets. It seems possible that D deficiency symptoms have as much to do with high va as they do with lack of D.
At the beginning of the low VA diet I had rather low calcium - sensitive teeth or the calcium was not stored in the right place and too much of "free calcium" was in the blood? Black beans are very high in oxalates, you can have similar benefits of legumes from white lima beans with low oxalate content. Coconut water is rich in potassium but not so in magnesium.
The better the level of vitamin D, the more efficient the body can use calcium from food.
"Excessive thirst and frequent urination." - I had this symptom for the first months, but maybe it was also related to the excretion of oxalates.