I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Inositol, Hormone Balance, and Cholestasis
The body produces 4 grams of it each day endogenously.
In humans a large amount of myo-Ins (about 1 g/day) is provided by dietary intake, with cereals, legumes, oil seeds and nuts representing the main sources [11], but a significant proportion of daily requirements is still synthesized endogenously (about 4 g/day), with kidneys being the major contributors.
Inositols. From established knowledge to novel approaches. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8508595/
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/therapy-for-retinoid-pathogenesis/
Is this the thread on the rescue agent? So, has anyone collected these supplements and tried them together?
I find it interesting that the paper pointed to in the original post on that page talks quite a bit about fatty liver. That seems to be a stubborn problem for my husband.
@lil-chick I've been eating 3-4 eggs a day for choline and biotin, quinoa, beetroot and spelt flour for betaine and spelt flour, brussels sprouts, rutabaga/swedes, prunes, peaches and occasional orange for inositol since last April (somewhat coincidentally). A few beans occasionally as well for inositol.
Thanks so much @andrew-b. I'm going to forward that to my husband. I made a list of what the google machine says are good foods to get these nutrients. Of course, they aren't the only foods that have the nutrients and some of them are high VA. I wonder if there is an app that follows all 5 of them? I bet some people would be into following them on an app.
I totally see some of the things my husband avoids on this list, and they are things that I don't avoid.
Choline: Liver, Egg Yolk, Beef, Chicken breast, Fish (cod and caviar were the given examples), Broccoli, Soy, Milk, Cauliflower, Shitake
Methionine: Turkey, Beef, Tuna, Pork, Tofu, Milk, Cheese, Peanuts, White Beans, Quinoa
Betaine: Wheat and whole grains, Spinach, Beets, Shrimp, Spaghetti, Pretzels, Crackers
Biotin: Egg Yolk, Legumes, Nuts and Seeds, Liver, Pork, Sweet Potatoes, Mushrooms, Bananas, Broccolli, Yeast, Avocadoes, Milk, Walnuts, Salmon
Inosutol: Whole Grains, Prunes, Beans and Peas, Almonds, Peanut Butter, Liver, Meat
The foot cramp thing is so common around here. Yes let us know, Jessica!
That’s exciting,@jessica2! 😁 I’m glad there’s another person for whom it works on the sweats. Hope it improves the foot cramps. 🤞
Ahhh! Yay!! 🙌 Way to go, @jessica2! 😃
Update: I’ve come across potential problem with inositol, and so I will be stopping it for now.
In her blog post “Vitamin A Detox...Start here! Don’t forget about detox pathways.” (edited by our own beloved Jenny Jones), Meredith Arthur mentions a hypothesis she has about why inositol supplementation may be counterproductive for those of us dealing with vitamin A toxicity. She is going to write a full blog post about it, but I asked her about the night sweat thing, and here is an excerpt from her reply to me:
I think the night sweats are because you have something that is impairing your ability to either make or use acetylcholine. Blockers of using acetylcholine would definitely include agonists such as stevia (and I think monk fruit because it causes the same problem for me). Vitamin A toxicity alone will steal your choline away. And…thiamine deficiency will slow down you ability to make acetyl part of acetylcholine. This may be wear inositol helps as well because it pushes you into glycolysis which increases pyruvate, and then perhaps you make more acetyl coA when taking inositol.
So, I think the original sweating back in your teens was a symptom of acetylcholine deficiency due to vitamin A stealing your choline away (ethanolamine retinal steal). Then, your symptoms now are due to being dependent on inositol to help you NOT use choline in your body. This is not good because this, I believe is causing mitochondria to dysfunction….
I believe that inositol can alter cardiolipin production. Cardiolipin can be thought of as a phospholipid that helps with stabilized the mitochondrial membrane. I hypothesize that inositol can turn off the ability to make cardiolipin. This can destabilize super complexes in the mitochondrial membrane leading to inefficient respiratory chain shuttling of electrons towards ATP production. This increases the AMP to ATP ratio. I believe this is how inositol improves glycemic control. It makes it so the same must use glycolysis to generate a small amount of ATP. This is also, in part, how metformin works. Metformin and Inositol are comparable in their ability to promote glycemic control after three months of use. Metformin impairs respiratory complex 1 which has the same effect on the mitochondrial respiration. It increased AMP levels which forces the sell to push more glucose through glycolysis. In addition, if you still have a pretty high total vitamin A level, your cardiolipin production is already impaired by retinal-ethanolamine steal.
If this doesn’t make sense, hopefully the post I am writing will. Let me know if you have questions.
Things that helped me get out of the constant sweats…
1. Thiamine
2. Increased choline intake (eggs)
3. No stevia or monk fruit
4. Sips of baking soda water (helps mesothelial cells that are throughout the body to make and release acetylcholine due to bicarbonate triggers this production)
Of course, I don’t know your entire health history and supplements, so definitely self advocate and talk with your trusted health profession. I’m just one person with a piece of the puzzle. It takes many minds to solve our way out of health issues.
(I mentioned you—anonymously—in my comment, @jessica2. Just tagging you so you’re aware of this potential downside. 😓)
Quote from puddleduck on May 29, 2023, 2:22 pmUpdate: I’ve come across potential problem with inositol, and so I will be stopping it for now.
In her blog post “Vitamin A Detox...Start here! Don’t forget about detox pathways.” (edited by our own beloved Jenny Jones), Meredith Arthur mentions a hypothesis she has about why inositol supplementation may be counterproductive for those of us dealing with vitamin A toxicity. She is going to write a full blog post about it, but I asked her about the night sweat thing, and here is an excerpt from her reply to me:
I think the night sweats are because you have something that is impairing your ability to either make or use acetylcholine. Blockers of using acetylcholine would definitely include agonists such as stevia (and I think monk fruit because it causes the same problem for me). Vitamin A toxicity alone will steal your choline away. And…thiamine deficiency will slow down you ability to make acetyl part of acetylcholine. This may be wear inositol helps as well because it pushes you into glycolysis which increases pyruvate, and then perhaps you make more acetyl coA when taking inositol.
So, I think the original sweating back in your teens was a symptom of acetylcholine deficiency due to vitamin A stealing your choline away (ethanolamine retinal steal). Then, your symptoms now are due to being dependent on inositol to help you NOT use choline in your body. This is not good because this, I believe is causing mitochondria to dysfunction….
I believe that inositol can alter cardiolipin production. Cardiolipin can be thought of as a phospholipid that helps with stabilized the mitochondrial membrane. I hypothesize that inositol can turn off the ability to make cardiolipin. This can destabilize super complexes in the mitochondrial membrane leading to inefficient respiratory chain shuttling of electrons towards ATP production. This increases the AMP to ATP ratio. I believe this is how inositol improves glycemic control. It makes it so the same must use glycolysis to generate a small amount of ATP. This is also, in part, how metformin works. Metformin and Inositol are comparable in their ability to promote glycemic control after three months of use. Metformin impairs respiratory complex 1 which has the same effect on the mitochondrial respiration. It increased AMP levels which forces the sell to push more glucose through glycolysis. In addition, if you still have a pretty high total vitamin A level, your cardiolipin production is already impaired by retinal-ethanolamine steal.
If this doesn’t make sense, hopefully the post I am writing will. Let me know if you have questions.
Things that helped me get out of the constant sweats…
1. Thiamine
2. Increased choline intake (eggs)
3. No stevia or monk fruit
4. Sips of baking soda water (helps mesothelial cells that are throughout the body to make and release acetylcholine due to bicarbonate triggers this production)Of course, I don’t know your entire health history and supplements, so definitely self advocate and talk with your trusted health profession. I’m just one person with a piece of the puzzle. It takes many minds to solve our way out of health issues.
(I mentioned you—anonymously—in my comment, @jessica2. Just tagging you so you’re aware of this potential downside.
)
Interesting how she is making the connection between Metformin and Inositol. @puddleduck I recently read an article (inspired by all the calorie in calorie out debate going on) discussing polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) being related to hyperinsulinemia.
The article is titled,
"ITIS -- It's the Insulin, Stupid"
https://www.tuitnutrition.com/2015/09/its-the-insulin-2.html
Thanks for the update, @jessica2. I’m sorry you’re feeling so much worse. 😕
Yeah, the rage thing...that was one of the symptoms they were treating us for with inositol in the nutritional-supplement-based program for bipolar patients...but they did use phosphatidyl choline supplements along with the inositol. It’s a pretty awful symptom. 😓
For me, nothing has changed. So perhaps it wasn’t causing any major problems, I dunno? But I guess I’m okay not to take it at this point.
I don’t regret using it for so many years, anyway, since it did help mitigate my symptoms. That’s a big deal to me. I don’t think we should be feeling like total garbage during detox, at least not for months and months... If that’s happening, something is wrong.