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Jenny’s pros and cons of vA detox
Quote from
Jenny on February 17, 2023, 11:24 am
@inger yes I did the Karen Hurd protocol pretty precisely from memory. I didn’t completely cut out fruit but didn’t eat much. I think it really works and it improved my bile flow. However, i think I have a particular problem with bile reflux for some reason and this seems to cause a series of symptoms for me including headaches. When bile flow improved it seems to mean more bile reflux for me which I guess makes sense as there is more bile. This is my best fit explanation as to why the bean diet made me feel ill. I tried three times and then gave up. I think if my system is less leaky (hopefully this is what will eventually happen with increased choline) I may no longer have this issue. Best current theory! Always open to being wrong!! The fact that PC caused similar symptoms has added weight to this theory for me.
@inger yes I did the Karen Hurd protocol pretty precisely from memory. I didn’t completely cut out fruit but didn’t eat much. I think it really works and it improved my bile flow. However, i think I have a particular problem with bile reflux for some reason and this seems to cause a series of symptoms for me including headaches. When bile flow improved it seems to mean more bile reflux for me which I guess makes sense as there is more bile. This is my best fit explanation as to why the bean diet made me feel ill. I tried three times and then gave up. I think if my system is less leaky (hopefully this is what will eventually happen with increased choline) I may no longer have this issue. Best current theory! Always open to being wrong!! The fact that PC caused similar symptoms has added weight to this theory for me.
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puddleduckAudreyNavnAndrew BDonaldAleksey
Quote from
Jiří on February 17, 2023, 11:44 am
liver flushes.. I will start with them again. I tried two flushes 10 years ago. First flush nothing came out. Second like 20 smaller stones and then I stopped. That was a big mistake.. Most people say it takes like 20 flushes until no stones are coming out, their bile flow is restored, their digestion is on line again, better skin, no allergies etc.. It makes sense. Without good bile flow you simply can't detox anything..
liver flushes.. I will start with them again. I tried two flushes 10 years ago. First flush nothing came out. Second like 20 smaller stones and then I stopped. That was a big mistake.. Most people say it takes like 20 flushes until no stones are coming out, their bile flow is restored, their digestion is on line again, better skin, no allergies etc.. It makes sense. Without good bile flow you simply can't detox anything..
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Quote from
Jenny on February 17, 2023, 12:03 pm
Good bile flow and no leakiness in the system is key for detoxification. Want those toxins out and not recirculating round the body. Three points of leakiness are 1. leaky liver i.e. cholestasis, 2. bile reflux, 3. leaky gut. These are the ones I know of anyway. I think my biggest problem is bile reflux which seems to allow toxins to escape closed loop via stomach and/or leaky oesophagus. Once toxins get in systemic blood they can go to skin, brain and kidneys. We don’t want this obviously.
Good bile flow and no leakiness in the system is key for detoxification. Want those toxins out and not recirculating round the body. Three points of leakiness are 1. leaky liver i.e. cholestasis, 2. bile reflux, 3. leaky gut. These are the ones I know of anyway. I think my biggest problem is bile reflux which seems to allow toxins to escape closed loop via stomach and/or leaky oesophagus. Once toxins get in systemic blood they can go to skin, brain and kidneys. We don’t want this obviously.
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Quote from
Audrey on March 27, 2023, 1:38 am
Hi @jaj I'm curious what your thoughts are on Taurine, if you'd be willing to share. I know it's possible for most of us to go low in taurine on this diet. I've never read anything about taurine being related to seizures, but what about if it had an indirect link? Maybe you've tested taurine out already? I recently read how taurine helps to maintain proper hydration and electrolyte balance in our cells, not to mention supporting the central nervous system. My intuition tells me that I need taurine though last time I took it, years ago now, I had a severe reaction. It makes sense to me that it could tie into low potassium for some us. I'm just thinking out loud and wanted to reach out about taurine whilst it's still fresh in my mind.
Hi @jaj I'm curious what your thoughts are on Taurine, if you'd be willing to share. I know it's possible for most of us to go low in taurine on this diet. I've never read anything about taurine being related to seizures, but what about if it had an indirect link? Maybe you've tested taurine out already? I recently read how taurine helps to maintain proper hydration and electrolyte balance in our cells, not to mention supporting the central nervous system. My intuition tells me that I need taurine though last time I took it, years ago now, I had a severe reaction. It makes sense to me that it could tie into low potassium for some us. I'm just thinking out loud and wanted to reach out about taurine whilst it's still fresh in my mind.
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Quote from
Jenny on March 27, 2023, 2:53 am
@audrey great question. I blow hot and cold on taurine. I think it’s largely useful, however, nowadays I tend to avoid supplements because I’ve become paranoid about doing the wrong thing. We try supplements thinking we know what they will do, but in fact human reactions are so varied and complex we often just end up causing more imbalance. I’m extremely cautious by nature and after the vA supplement debacle, I’m even more cautious. I do take a supplement for pyroluria though which has a small amount of taurine in it. I only take this because: 1. I didn’t address my pyroluria for the first 2 years on the vA detox, following (I now realise) unsound advice, and ended up an anxious mess 2. I have had it energetically tested 3. It’s recommended by a pyroluria expert who I trust 4. Untreated pyroluria worsens porphyria (according to Klinghart) and porphyrins cause seizures (according to Steven Rochlitz). Long answer!! Short answer - I think it’s probably helpful for many reasons and I take a small amount rather than more, because I’m frightened of supplements.
@audrey great question. I blow hot and cold on taurine. I think it’s largely useful, however, nowadays I tend to avoid supplements because I’ve become paranoid about doing the wrong thing. We try supplements thinking we know what they will do, but in fact human reactions are so varied and complex we often just end up causing more imbalance. I’m extremely cautious by nature and after the vA supplement debacle, I’m even more cautious. I do take a supplement for pyroluria though which has a small amount of taurine in it. I only take this because: 1. I didn’t address my pyroluria for the first 2 years on the vA detox, following (I now realise) unsound advice, and ended up an anxious mess 2. I have had it energetically tested 3. It’s recommended by a pyroluria expert who I trust 4. Untreated pyroluria worsens porphyria (according to Klinghart) and porphyrins cause seizures (according to Steven Rochlitz). Long answer!! Short answer - I think it’s probably helpful for many reasons and I take a small amount rather than more, because I’m frightened of supplements.
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puddleduckAudreyNavnAndrew B
Quote from
Audrey on March 27, 2023, 9:04 am
Thanks for answering @jaj. I too am frightened of supplements... the Bs as well, as I feel taking one and not knowing the status of the others has the potential to throw the entire equation off. I am not very familiar with porphyrins and will need to investigate. I believe @puddleduck mentioned recently that you mentioned that charcol helps to bind porphyrins.
Thanks for answering @jaj. I too am frightened of supplements... the Bs as well, as I feel taking one and not knowing the status of the others has the potential to throw the entire equation off. I am not very familiar with porphyrins and will need to investigate. I believe @puddleduck mentioned recently that you mentioned that charcol helps to bind porphyrins.
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Quote from
Alex on January 4, 2023, 7:28 am
Quote from
Jessica2 on December 30, 2022, 9:33 am
@alexm But I'm making you feel like I'm the choline police?? That sounds a bit paranoid to me on a network where policing speech isn't possible or encouraged. Say what you want Alex, I don't care.
@jessica2
That comment wasn’t really in response to you in particular, I made that comment because everytime I have mentioned something that isn’t just just positive about choline supplements I have had Andrew quickly respond (usually with a gang of others) in a defensive manner as if there can’t be anything wrong with choline for VA toxicity and this has happened on several different occasions now on this forum.
On this particular occasion Anna asked me for an update on my experience with PC so I took a long time to write her an answer. Just to have Andrew quickly respond preaching all the wonderful benefits of choline and ignoring most the things I said. His comment felt like a passive aggressive invalidation of my experience somewhat. Andrew does not have any experience with choline supplements yet he seems to think he knows better in this situation.
This whole eggs and choline stuff is getting a bit preachy now on here and even seems dogmatic at times. I just want to mention I ate 3-4 eggs everyday from august 2021 -March 2022 and took phospholipid supplement from December2021to March2022 + 2 extra months in 2021 with the phospholipid supplement. And and I still developed bad VA toxciity I’m going to explain the whole story in the next post but that is another big reason why I think it stores VA and doesn’t help detox VA faster.
Wow just found this thread and realized that the forum has had to deal with this toxic behavior for a long time. Sorry you had to go through it too @alexm
Quote from
Alex on January 4, 2023, 7:28 am
Quote from
Jessica2 on December 30, 2022, 9:33 am
@alexm But I'm making you feel like I'm the choline police?? That sounds a bit paranoid to me on a network where policing speech isn't possible or encouraged. Say what you want Alex, I don't care.
@jessica2
That comment wasn’t really in response to you in particular, I made that comment because everytime I have mentioned something that isn’t just just positive about choline supplements I have had Andrew quickly respond (usually with a gang of others) in a defensive manner as if there can’t be anything wrong with choline for VA toxicity and this has happened on several different occasions now on this forum.
On this particular occasion Anna asked me for an update on my experience with PC so I took a long time to write her an answer. Just to have Andrew quickly respond preaching all the wonderful benefits of choline and ignoring most the things I said. His comment felt like a passive aggressive invalidation of my experience somewhat. Andrew does not have any experience with choline supplements yet he seems to think he knows better in this situation.
This whole eggs and choline stuff is getting a bit preachy now on here and even seems dogmatic at times. I just want to mention I ate 3-4 eggs everyday from august 2021 -March 2022 and took phospholipid supplement from December2021to March2022 + 2 extra months in 2021 with the phospholipid supplement. And and I still developed bad VA toxciity I’m going to explain the whole story in the next post but that is another big reason why I think it stores VA and doesn’t help detox VA faster.
Wow just found this thread and realized that the forum has had to deal with this toxic behavior for a long time. Sorry you had to go through it too @alexm
Quote from
DWL on January 26, 2025, 2:03 pm
Jenny, in reading the labs description of taurine on the website where I order taurine, I noticed that seizures is in the list of maladies treated with taurine. I don’t remember that taurine was noted in your log, but thought it might warrant researching.
All the best—DWL
Jenny, in reading the labs description of taurine on the website where I order taurine, I noticed that seizures is in the list of maladies treated with taurine. I don’t remember that taurine was noted in your log, but thought it might warrant researching.
All the best—DWL
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