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Kempner's rice diet.
I'm wondering about Kempners Rice, fruit and sugar diet. In the blogpost about diabetes Grant mentions it and Im sort of agreeing with the main point and it not being optimal. And some of Kempners dieters died from some sort of suspected electrolyte imbalance that was not alleviated by adding back salt in the diet so he had a 20% mortality rate. Though his patient group had a 100% mortality rate without his diet so its still a good bet. But what makes me curious is that the standard procedure was to add back some meat and potatoes after 3 months. And some of the patients couldn't tolerate that and had to contiune without meat. Why would that be??? (And also why does many carnivores develop diabetes after prolonged time on the diet and elevated free fatty acids). Im not trying to discuss carnivore just what was going on on the Rice diet
@henrik this rice, sugar, juice diet was deficent in basically everything. So no wonder they couldn't tolerate meat. You need good stomach acid production for digesting meat. For that zinc, iodine, B1, amino acids like histidine etc. are needed. It was just stupid diet. It simply worked because they were in calorie deficit. But they could have much better results with good balanced diet with the amount of calories they needed to lose fat.. Every "gym bro" could give people much better and healthier diet to lose weight and build muscles as well.. You don't have to eat just white rice and sugar and juice to reverse type 2 diabetes and lose weight.. That is just nonsense..
I don't know much about this diet, but I do want to share a personal vignette. This was a while back. My head was filled with the so-called evils of carbs at the time, however... Low carb had started making me feel like crap (I'd stopped mensing for instance) and I had begun to think along the lines of another diet, name that of FAILSAFE (white rice is good by them, they have some things in common with low VA).
Anyhow I was at the mall with my then-teenager children and no end in sight to the lengthy visit. Super hungry (as low carb had made me drop to about 95 pounds) and only bad-old mall food in front of me and I had no idea what to eat so I ordered some plain white rice and waited for the horrors of carbs to hit me.
Instead, I had smooth and even temper and energy to devote to my children.
It was one moment out of many that led me to realize that basically plain carb and plain meat is plain good.
I think that Asian people revere rice because it is a pure food.
I do think that it can be hard to get back on meat if you have been off of it for a while. Bone broth might be a good start, probably better than that gateway drug: bacon.
@jiri Well, I guess theoretically you are right that its deficient in a lot of things but still I don't see how that would make them not tolerate it. I guess I could have been more explicit on the problems - they got extremely high blood pressure when adding meat. I don't know how you bring up calorie deficit though- this was not a weight loss diet but a last resort diet to combat extreme hypertension and the program ran as a university hospital program for 70 years. The calory intake was also strictly controlled to not be exessively low. The mortality for the patient group not on the diet was 100% at that time and Kempners diet successfully reduced that mortality rate to 25% whih is astonishing and nothing replicateable by weightloss. I do think though as I initially said that you might be on to something with the deficiancy causing the problem. Maybe the zinc deficiency, though how would that contribute to hightened blood pressure upon adding meat? @lil-chick Thanks for sharing - yeah, I also have a pretty good reaction to rice, though I somehow find that if I don't balance it with potatoes I get a huge distaste for it, and that will transfer more or less I think to white sugar too. Meaning if I eat too much plain rice I also loose the appetite for sugar. My interpretation of this is not due to any problem with rice in itself though but probalbly due to extra vitamin-B needs due to the detox process. But it doesnt help even if I eat a lot of meat; I still need potatoes with my rice regularly. Oh I could mention the distaste also translates to fruit!! (also low in B though) . Haha I agree that bone broth probably is a better alternative to bacon. Though personally I dont tolerate it well problably due to the high histamine content and potentially it could have a lot of retinol due to the bone marrow, but probably still less than bacon. When I was a vegetarian 30 years ago I had a lot of health problems and so I decided to add meat back but for me it was animal fats that was the way back to it. I starte just eating lambs fat which I absolutly craved! Just say NO (No Bacon on our streets) lol
Is it too far-fetched to think of a micriobiome issue? Maybe an overgrowth of bad bacteria that digest meat, fats, bile? Combined with bowel permeability. Kidney cells have olfactory receptors. If they smell bad bacteria byproducts blood pressure goes up. The diet is low in lectins and I think will create barely any bile.
So the intestine can repair itself and the bad bacteria don't get any food, or suboptimal food and get crowded out by better bacteria.
But hey, maybe I've listened to Dr. Gundry too much. Who knows.
Quote from Donald on April 12, 2023, 12:30 pmIs it too far-fetched to think of a micriobiome issue? Maybe an overgrowth of bad bacteria that digest meat, fats, bile? Combined with bowel permeability. Kidney cells have olfactory receptors. If they smell bad bacteria byproducts blood pressure goes up. The diet is low in lectins and I think will create barely any bile.
So the intestine can repair itself and the bad bacteria don't get any food, or suboptimal food and get crowded out by better bacteria.
But hey, maybe I've listened to Dr. Gundry too much. Who knows.
Haha. Wow at least I like the angle. I dont know dr.Gundry though I've seen his name thrown around. It sounds a bit fishy that they could have olfactory receptors but thats only by reason of logic as there's something about the olfactory functions connected to the blood brain barrier bypassing that makes me think it wouldnt be functioning. But maybe they dont function the same way. Anyways I think the biletheory might be merited here. If the eating of those added foods cause bile dump and the bile holds an enorumous amonut of f***h I could see that if you have a preexisting contidtion that could flare up when introducing bile-triggering substances even if they are low fat. Don't know about the microbiome except I know it can be very influential but that would probably be through secondary mechanisms I guess(?). thanks for the input anyway