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Mistakes in food choice
Someone gave us some nice fresh tomatoes. I really didn’t want to eat any but I did. It was a mistake because after three days of eating a small one or half of one once a day, my lips got dry and peeled. And my knuckles got dry but didn’t split like they did after eating an egg yolk. I was able to take the others to a coworker. I am usually very careful but I didn’t want to waste them.
I read franko’s account on the Ray Peat forum and really didn’t believe that eating pizza would trigger such a bad reaction. I guess I believe it now.
What you are describing sounds more like an allergy or a deficiency of something that's making you extremely sensitive to vA.
@tim, we have had some debates about carotenes. One thing in their defense is that, in the body, they would produce NATURAL VA.
The wapfers I know keep saying that bad VA effects are about SYNTHETIC VA and not about NATURAL VA.
I don't think anyone here would be totally against the thought that lab-created VA might be even worse than natural.
What if our bodies sometimes take a natural carotene, bust it up into a NATURAL VA and then go in and store it, knocking out a SYNTHETIC one? And in that way, renewing some bad symptom we hate?
Just a thought I had. But the body can be this way sometimes. Like iodine knocking out fluoride.
Synthethic is different from natural vA. I explained this a few weeks ago. There are many different possible isomers of just retinol: All-trans-13,14-dihydroretinol, 13-cisretinol, 9,13-di-cis-retinol, all-trans-retinol and 11-cis-retinol, etc
That doesn't necessarily make synthetic vA more toxic (although it's likely) but it may make it less effective if one is actually vA deficient.
Quote from Eio on August 22, 2020, 4:23 pmSomeone gave us some nice fresh tomatoes. I really didn’t want to eat any but I did. It was a mistake because after three days of eating a small one or half of one once a day, my lips got dry and peeled. And my knuckles got dry but didn’t split like they did after eating an egg yolk. I was able to take the others to a coworker. I am usually very careful but I didn’t want to waste them.
I read franko’s account on the Ray Peat forum and really didn’t believe that eating pizza would trigger such a bad reaction. I guess I believe it now.
I have reacted to fairly small amounts of beta carotene, too. There is also methanol in raw tomatoes:
http://whilesciencesleeps.com/files/Monte%20Diet.pdf
Maybe you are ultra-sensitive to it as well. Do you know if you have a bad reaction to aspartame?
Quote from lil chick on August 24, 2020, 6:25 amLike iodine knocking out fluoride.
Another realization I had about WAPF recently is how bad Fallon's advice is to make bone broth for extended periods and to use vinegar. I knew it was a bad idea to use vinegar in a stainless steel stock pot however not only do chicken bones release considerable amounts of lead they are also full of fluoride! :facepalm:
Chicken stock is ok but just make it normally, avoid doing it WAPF style!
I dropped that rec about vinegar in broth after doing it a few times. Vinegar doesn't seem to belong in a basic broth. My taste buds don't want it in there.
I came out in a rash yesterday across the torso--my bad area that has been mostly quiet--can't help but blame the jugs of salsa that hubs is forcing me to eat (LOL)
Hubs thinks he has come out with poison ivy on his hand, but is he also responding to the salsa?
Then I thought to myself, poison ivy . rhus tox. red toxin. Didn't Grant once talk about how the allergen in poison ivy is so closely related to VA?
I once had poison ivy right across my torso. Isn't that interesting? And my problems with excess itchyness there came after that horrible bout.
@tim-2, You mentioned allergy to VA, I suppose there could be some odd cross-sensitivity between carotene(s) and poison ivy
Are people who are having instantaneous carotene reactions all allergic to poison ivy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomatine
Tomatoes used to be thought of as poisonous, and they do contain a plant poison of their own.
It occurs to me that I've gotten rashes now and then just from walking through my garden. (near the tomatoes). It says in this article that the leaves contain even more of the toxin than the fruit.
Tomatoes have been involved in many food attacks for me. I still eat them (duh) mostly because I went on having food attacks even when I removed tomatoes from the diet. They can have lots of carotenes besides the other toxins (above). And many tomato products like pizza sauce or ketchup are concentrated forms of tomato. So it might not look like much, but you could be staring at a whole tomato when you slather ketchup on a burger.
Tomato allergies can cause skin issues. People tend to tolerate cooked skinless tomato products over raw. They are a nightshade after all. Potato and tomato plants look inherently poisonous to me. But most people tolerate them without issue. My general recommendation is to allow small amounts of tomato in the diet.
Quote from tim on August 22, 2020, 5:09 pmWhat you are describing sounds more like an allergy or a deficiency of something that's making you extremely sensitive to vA.
I disagree. It sounds exactly like a reaction to carotenoids.