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DiscussionLet's talk about it: Diets and foodsover feeding

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over feeding

#1 · January 17, 2023, 6:45 am

Quote from lil chick on January 17, 2023, 6:45 am
I've been thinking about how so many people seem thick around their livers these days. Some people drink but others really don't and still have fatty liver problems. Of course there has been some progress with some people on this list losing this type of weight (thanks to Grant!) but we have seen some people still struggle

I wanted to bring up the idea that it's kind of known that *over feeding* can lead to fatty liver--this is a known thing--it's not even a puzzle really. That's how they get fois gras, for instance, in the farming world--by over-feeding geese.

I think it's interesting that I have finally (?) linked at least some aspect of my "food attacks" to over feeding as well.

I suppose it is very simple: our detox pathways become overwhelmed with over feeding.

I was reading about how we (the modern world) have become a jaded populous, always over-stimulated. People say we need to consciously decide to have down times.

Similarly, I think we also need to have down times with food (ie times that we are working on building an appetite). A good appetite is the best sauce, it is said. So I think that is half the battle.

Besides taking breaks from eating I think it is important to not over-stuff yourself when you do eat.

I was reading about the general topic of over-stimulation. A writer gave this example. Let's say you order yourself a big ice cream sundae with the fudge and the whipped cream and the nuts and all. The first few bites you are just blown away with the experience. But by the time you are half-way though slogging it down you've sort of lost interest and after a while you are continuing out of momentum or maybe some moral value not to waste food.

I suppose that we can give ourselves permission to not continue slogging.

And perhaps that is the best of both worlds: You can have your cake and eat it too.

I've heard it said that you should not eat more than you can fit into your two hands at one time. Imagine that you have one trip to the communal bowl, and your portion is what you can carry away in your two hands.

I've been thinking about how so many people seem thick around their livers these days. Some people drink but others really don't and still have fatty liver problems. Of course there has been some progress with some people on this list losing this type of weight (thanks to Grant!) but we have seen some people still struggle

I wanted to bring up the idea that it's kind of known that *over feeding* can lead to fatty liver--this is a known thing--it's not even a puzzle really. That's how they get fois gras, for instance, in the farming world--by over-feeding geese.

I think it's interesting that I have finally (?) linked at least some aspect of my "food attacks" to over feeding as well.

I suppose it is very simple: our detox pathways become overwhelmed with over feeding.

I was reading about how we (the modern world) have become a jaded populous, always over-stimulated. People say we need to consciously decide to have down times.

Similarly, I think we also need to have down times with food (ie times that we are working on building an appetite). A good appetite is the best sauce, it is said. So I think that is half the battle.

Besides taking breaks from eating I think it is important to not over-stuff yourself when you do eat.

I was reading about the general topic of over-stimulation. A writer gave this example. Let's say you order yourself a big ice cream sundae with the fudge and the whipped cream and the nuts and all. The first few bites you are just blown away with the experience. But by the time you are half-way though slogging it down you've sort of lost interest and after a while you are continuing out of momentum or maybe some moral value not to waste food.

I suppose that we can give ourselves permission to not continue slogging.

And perhaps that is the best of both worlds: You can have your cake and eat it too.

I've heard it said that you should not eat more than you can fit into your two hands at one time. Imagine that you have one trip to the communal bowl, and your portion is what you can carry away in your two hands.

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#2 · January 17, 2023, 6:54 am

Premium Photo | Two hands full of dry coffee and showing it to the camera. coffee commercial concept.

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#3 · January 17, 2023, 7:15 am

I recently tried intermittent fasting.

I have a very physically demanding lifestyle and need a lot of calories or I become underweight.

I would be ravenous trying to get all my calories into my eating window, and it didn't feel good. My gut felt like lead.

I have, however, always taken the time from the end of dinner until breakfast as a fasting time. That seems to be fine for me.

It does seem like intermittent fasting works for some, but perhaps those people have some excess fat to burn, and I don't. In fact, I did find sources online that said that intermittent fasting might not be good for people who are underweight.

I wonder if people who are having bad results with carnivore are mostly also doing one meal a day. And is that meal a lot for the body to handle at once? Would it be better to do smaller meals? Would your pathways work better? Just ideas.

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#4 · January 17, 2023, 7:44 am

There is another aspect to overfeeding as well. I was aware all along that improving absorption was very important too. So many of us started trying to eat loads of protein and beef to resolve the high vitamin A but we hadnt fully resolved the absorption part. You put your body through extra effort eating loads of food to satisfy the craving for nutrients and that energy taken up in digestion slows down the healing and detox process. Magnesium, potassium, zinc and hydration all help. It was only when I started eating more eggs (again relatively low energy to eat) that my digestion improved and absorption improved. I now eat a bit less than I did before and still feel full up whereas before I couldnt eat enough beef in particular.

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#5 · January 17, 2023, 11:44 am

@lil-chick I always appreciate your reflections.

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#6 · January 18, 2023, 1:58 am

Interesting post and pretty relevant I think. I find this a really hard balance. On the one hand, you get advice to leave x hours between meals to aid motility (I think there are cleansing waves that occur in your digestive tract when you do this - can't remember technical term), and give your digestive tract a rest.

Then on the other hand you have the advice to only eat so much per meal like you are saying and not to over stuff yourself.
Currently I'm eating three pretty equal meals a day. In order to get in enough calories with a limited number of foods tolerated there is a fair amount of bulk. Certainly more than I can hold in two hands. However, if I stopped when I felt I had eaten enough rather than finishing my meal, I would lose weight which I can't afford to do.

I can't find a middle path where I am satisfying both of the above. I am almost certainly over feeding with each meal as I do feel pretty stuffed, however I am not overfeeding each day as I am barely maintaining my weight. In practice I find all this a minefield and I pretty much eat in a prescribed way. Maybe it's because I have poor digestion and have to over eat in order to absorb enough nutrition. Maybe it will sort itself out once my gut is working better and I'll be able to be more intuitive around eating.

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#7 · January 18, 2023, 12:00 pm

Quote from Liz on January 18, 2023, 12:00 pm
I think this, as well as starvation, are very interesting and complex topics. It is always fun to read your rants @lil-chick.

Hunger and satiation are controlled by hormones leptin and ghrelin. It is not "normal" to over eat and become obese. Just as it isn't "normal" to have no hunger cues and eat too little. The reason for overeating can be many, like emotional eating (due to trauma) or eating out of boredom. Poor absorption, i.e. the body is starving despite more than enough calories and nutrients which Andrew brought up is another interesting point.

In the minnesota starvation experiment, it took years for the participants to recover fully after 6 months of semi-starvation and they reported constant hunger. Some had to carry food with them everywhere because they were constantly hungry. When it comes to battling hunger, one's psyche must be very strong. Hunger always wins (anorexia would be the exception). They also tried giving supplements but found it useless unless calories was sufficient. Those men did not refeed on beans, meat and rice. They stuffed themselves with palatable foods like chocolate bars, cookies and pastry, when given the choice.

Edit: they got fat, of course, with overfeeding. But almost everyone spontaneously reached their pre-experiment weight some years later. Full recovery took years, eating to satiety. A few remained overweight if I remember correctly. For some reason, whey didn't recover like the others did.

I have always had a big apetite, or so I thought (I have also always been on the thin side, and a hardgainer). But it wasn't until I discovered fitness and got a coach back in the early 2000's that I became aware of my eating. That severely fucked me up. Instead of eating when hungry, I started eating after the clock, and in much bigger amounts. I remember thinking 300g of potatoes was way too much and I battled finising my meals. Some years later, and some starvation-competition diets later, 2lbs of potatoes was no problem at all, when hungry, and I still had major food cravings afterwarss despite being physically full. And I was always hungry. Always thought about food. Years and years of trying to control my bottomles pit of a stomach on the weekdays just to give in on the weekends, managing weight gain with a ton of exercise. I am still fucked up regarding hunger and satiety even though I have been "recovered" for some time.

Apetite has been going up and down during detox which I think most, if not all of us, has experienced. I would love to have my pre-fitness mentality back. When food was just food. Not macros and micros, healthy and unhealthy, and calories. Food was just food.

I think this, as well as starvation, are very interesting and complex topics. It is always fun to read your rants @lil-chick.

Hunger and satiation are controlled by hormones leptin and ghrelin. It is not "normal" to over eat and become obese. Just as it isn't "normal" to have no hunger cues and eat too little. The reason for overeating can be many, like emotional eating (due to trauma) or eating out of boredom. Poor absorption, i.e. the body is starving despite more than enough calories and nutrients which Andrew brought up is another interesting point.

In the minnesota starvation experiment, it took years for the participants to recover fully after 6 months of semi-starvation and they reported constant hunger. Some had to carry food with them everywhere because they were constantly hungry. When it comes to battling hunger, one's psyche must be very strong. Hunger always wins (anorexia would be the exception). They also tried giving supplements but found it useless unless calories was sufficient. Those men did not refeed on beans, meat and rice. They stuffed themselves with palatable foods like chocolate bars, cookies and pastry, when given the choice.

Edit: they got fat, of course, with overfeeding. But almost everyone spontaneously reached their pre-experiment weight some years later. Full recovery took years, eating to satiety. A few remained overweight if I remember correctly. For some reason, whey didn't recover like the others did.

I have always had a big apetite, or so I thought (I have also always been on the thin side, and a hardgainer). But it wasn't until I discovered fitness and got a coach back in the early 2000's that I became aware of my eating. That severely fucked me up. Instead of eating when hungry, I started eating after the clock, and in much bigger amounts. I remember thinking 300g of potatoes was way too much and I battled finising my meals. Some years later, and some starvation-competition diets later, 2lbs of potatoes was no problem at all, when hungry, and I still had major food cravings afterwarss despite being physically full. And I was always hungry. Always thought about food. Years and years of trying to control my bottomles pit of a stomach on the weekdays just to give in on the weekends, managing weight gain with a ton of exercise. I am still fucked up regarding hunger and satiety even though I have been "recovered" for some time.

Apetite has been going up and down during detox which I think most, if not all of us, has experienced. I would love to have my pre-fitness mentality back. When food was just food. Not macros and micros, healthy and unhealthy, and calories. Food was just food.

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#8 · January 19, 2023, 2:14 am

@liz I experienced exactly the same things like the guys in the minnesota starvation experiment.. I did stupid detoxes and diets on just vegetables etc. So I was eating maybe 1000-1500kcal a day for couple of months after that some survival mechanism kicked in and I started eating EVERYTHING and ALL THE TIME. I was walking from shop to shop and just buying and eating mostly things like frozen pizza, donuts, burgers, hot dogs, chocolate milks, candy etc.. Me who had crazy discipline during my bodybuilding days and no issues eating nothing but chicken breats, rice, green beans for years. Now I couldn't stop. It was crazy.. It lasted at least couple of weeks for sure. I was eating daily I don't know 5000-7000kcal for sure. After that I gained mostly fat. So before that I lost a lot of muscles, now I gained mostly fat. So I was disgusted watching myself in the mirror. This crazy hunger was lower and lower when my body fat was higher. So I started eating clean foods again. Unfortunately for me I started learning about all this "healthy eating" protocols like from Weston Price, Keto, Paleo. So I started with low carb diet full of whole eggs, butter, cheese, liver, cod liver oil.. After that I learned about Peat so I added a lot of sugar to my diet as well and the shit show started.. Now I am trying to learn my body and what it needs. We are not robots so sometimes 1 meal a day is ok. Sometimes 5 meals is ok. Its important to be flexible and to do what feels good for your body and not what somebody says on the internet..

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#9 · January 20, 2023, 3:24 am

Quote from Inger on January 20, 2023, 3:24 am

Quote from Jiří on January 19, 2023, 2:14 am

@liz I experienced exactly the same things like the guys in the minnesota starvation experiment.. I did stupid detoxes and diets on just vegetables etc. So I was eating maybe 1000-1500kcal a day for couple of months after that some survival mechanism kicked in and I started eating EVERYTHING and ALL THE TIME. I was walking from shop to shop and just buying and eating mostly things like frozen pizza, donuts, burgers, hot dogs, chocolate milks, candy etc.. Me who had crazy discipline during my bodybuilding days and no issues eating nothing but chicken breats, rice, green beans for years. Now I couldn't stop. It was crazy.. It lasted at least couple of weeks for sure. I was eating daily I don't know 5000-7000kcal for sure. After that I gained mostly fat. So before that I lost a lot of muscles, now I gained mostly fat. So I was disgusted watching myself in the mirror. This crazy hunger was lower and lower when my body fat was higher. So I started eating clean foods again. Unfortunately for me I started learning about all this "healthy eating" protocols like from Weston Price, Keto, Paleo. So I started with low carb diet full of whole eggs, butter, cheese, liver, cod liver oil.. After that I learned about Peat so I added a lot of sugar to my diet as well and the shit show started.. Now I am trying to learn my body and what it needs. We are not robots so sometimes 1 meal a day is ok. Sometimes 5 meals is ok. Its important to be flexible and to do what feels good for your body and not what somebody says on the internet..

Oh yeah.. I can kinda relate to all of this... Me to is now trying to really listen to my body and let go of all ideas of perfect diets..... I used to make fish head smoothies. They was disgusting, I had to hold my nose drinking them. But they gave me a boost somehow! I thought they were mega healthy. Now I kinda think they just poisoned me with vitamin A. Fish eyes are very high in vitamin A. After doing those smoothies for years I started to get heart palps doing them too often so I stopped doing them. Uhhh... what crazy things I have done thinking it was so good for me.

Quote from Jiří on January 19, 2023, 2:14 am

@liz I experienced exactly the same things like the guys in the minnesota starvation experiment.. I did stupid detoxes and diets on just vegetables etc. So I was eating maybe 1000-1500kcal a day for couple of months after that some survival mechanism kicked in and I started eating EVERYTHING and ALL THE TIME. I was walking from shop to shop and just buying and eating mostly things like frozen pizza, donuts, burgers, hot dogs, chocolate milks, candy etc.. Me who had crazy discipline during my bodybuilding days and no issues eating nothing but chicken breats, rice, green beans for years. Now I couldn't stop. It was crazy.. It lasted at least couple of weeks for sure. I was eating daily I don't know 5000-7000kcal for sure. After that I gained mostly fat. So before that I lost a lot of muscles, now I gained mostly fat. So I was disgusted watching myself in the mirror. This crazy hunger was lower and lower when my body fat was higher. So I started eating clean foods again. Unfortunately for me I started learning about all this "healthy eating" protocols like from Weston Price, Keto, Paleo. So I started with low carb diet full of whole eggs, butter, cheese, liver, cod liver oil.. After that I learned about Peat so I added a lot of sugar to my diet as well and the shit show started.. Now I am trying to learn my body and what it needs. We are not robots so sometimes 1 meal a day is ok. Sometimes 5 meals is ok. Its important to be flexible and to do what feels good for your body and not what somebody says on the internet..

Oh yeah.. I can kinda relate to all of this... Me to is now trying to really listen to my body and let go of all ideas of perfect diets..... I used to make fish head smoothies. They was disgusting, I had to hold my nose drinking them. But they gave me a boost somehow! I thought they were mega healthy. Now I kinda think they just poisoned me with vitamin A. Fish eyes are very high in vitamin A. After doing those smoothies for years I started to get heart palps doing them too often so I stopped doing them. Uhhh... what crazy things I have done thinking it was so good for me.

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#10 · July 9, 2026, 2:23 am

Quote from Bruce on July 9, 2026, 2:23 am

Quote from Inger on January 20, 2023, 3:24 am

Quote from Jiří on January 19, 2023, 2:14 am

@liz I experienced exactly the same things like the guys in the minnesota starvation experiment.. I did stupid detoxes and diets on just vegetables etc. So I was eating maybe 1000-1500kcal a day for couple of months after that some survival mechanism kicked in and I started eating EVERYTHING and ALL THE TIME. I was walking from shop to shop and just buying and eating mostly things like frozen pizza, donuts, burgers, hot dogs, chocolate milks, candy etc.. Me who had crazy discipline during my bodybuilding days and no issues eating nothing but chicken breats, rice, green beans for years. Now I couldn't stop. It was crazy.. It lasted at least couple of weeks for sure. I was eating daily I don't know 5000-7000kcal for sure. After that I gained mostly fat. So before that I lost a lot of muscles, now I gained mostly fat. So I was disgusted watching myself in the mirror. This crazy hunger was lower and lower when my body fat was higher. So I started eating clean foods again. Unfortunately for me I started learning about all this "healthy eating" protocols like from Weston Price, Keto, Paleo. So I started with low carb diet full of whole eggs, butter, cheese, liver, cod liver oil.. After that I learned about Peat so I added a lot of sugar to my diet as well and the shit show started.. Now I am trying to learn my body and what it needs. We are not robots so sometimes 1 meal a day is ok. Sometimes 5 meals is ok. Its important to be flexible and to do what feels good for your body and not what somebody says on the internet..

Oh yeah.. I can kinda relate to all of this... Me to is now trying to really listen to my body and let go of all ideas of perfect diets..... I used to make fish head smoothies. They was disgusting, I had to hold my nose drinking them. But they gave me a boost somehow! I thought they were mega healthy. Now I kinda think they just poisoned me with vitamin A. Fish eyes are very high in vitamin A. After doing those smoothies for years I started to get heart palps doing them too often so I stopped doing them. Uhhh... what crazy things I have done thinking it was so good for me.

Fish head smoothies? Wow. Much respect. I can’t even imagine doing that for health or for pleasure-eating.

Quote from Inger on January 20, 2023, 3:24 am

Quote from Jiří on January 19, 2023, 2:14 am

@liz I experienced exactly the same things like the guys in the minnesota starvation experiment.. I did stupid detoxes and diets on just vegetables etc. So I was eating maybe 1000-1500kcal a day for couple of months after that some survival mechanism kicked in and I started eating EVERYTHING and ALL THE TIME. I was walking from shop to shop and just buying and eating mostly things like frozen pizza, donuts, burgers, hot dogs, chocolate milks, candy etc.. Me who had crazy discipline during my bodybuilding days and no issues eating nothing but chicken breats, rice, green beans for years. Now I couldn't stop. It was crazy.. It lasted at least couple of weeks for sure. I was eating daily I don't know 5000-7000kcal for sure. After that I gained mostly fat. So before that I lost a lot of muscles, now I gained mostly fat. So I was disgusted watching myself in the mirror. This crazy hunger was lower and lower when my body fat was higher. So I started eating clean foods again. Unfortunately for me I started learning about all this "healthy eating" protocols like from Weston Price, Keto, Paleo. So I started with low carb diet full of whole eggs, butter, cheese, liver, cod liver oil.. After that I learned about Peat so I added a lot of sugar to my diet as well and the shit show started.. Now I am trying to learn my body and what it needs. We are not robots so sometimes 1 meal a day is ok. Sometimes 5 meals is ok. Its important to be flexible and to do what feels good for your body and not what somebody says on the internet..

Oh yeah.. I can kinda relate to all of this... Me to is now trying to really listen to my body and let go of all ideas of perfect diets..... I used to make fish head smoothies. They was disgusting, I had to hold my nose drinking them. But they gave me a boost somehow! I thought they were mega healthy. Now I kinda think they just poisoned me with vitamin A. Fish eyes are very high in vitamin A. After doing those smoothies for years I started to get heart palps doing them too often so I stopped doing them. Uhhh... what crazy things I have done thinking it was so good for me.

Fish head smoothies? Wow. Much respect. I can’t even imagine doing that for health or for pleasure-eating.

over feeding

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