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Paul Saladino
Yes, absolutely. Infrared deficiency is maybe even more deleterious than ultraviolet deficiency. I'm actually planning on moving my family to a beach home in South Carolina, for exactly that reason. Not as good as a jungle home in Costa Rica, but it's the best I'll be able to do.
Paul shows major signs of aging on the surface over the past few years, ever since he stopped strict carnivore. It's easy to go back and compare in his video history. His hair has greyed significantly and his facial skin in particular looks much worse. Some combination of the "normal" aging process hitting him at middle age, the sun he's in all the time, Vitamin A, iron, and fructose/sugar consumption. (He also wound up with a retarded haircut...a sign of mental decline? lol)
Paul has claimed that whenever he has tested Vitamin A in his labwork it's been normal, but I don't recall ever seeing him show labs that measured Vitamin A. In general, he seems like he is speaking his own honest truth (he has shown problems with his labwork on multiple occasions, like elevated ferritin), but it is a little suspicious that he has never posted Vitamin A lab values (unless I missed it). His version of truth is often demonstrably wrong.
I've suggested before that his apparent lack of Vitamin A toxicity despite reportedly regular liver consumption may have to do with his high level of fructose consumption. He's reported that starches like white rice and potatoes give him brain fog and don't make him feel good like fruit and honey do. There seem to be a lot of other people following Paul who tried strict carnivore, then added fruit and/or honey, and claimed they felt much better on fruit and honey. Hard to say how many of them also tried starches in the absence of fructose, but it seems like a lot (majority?) gravitate towards sucrose/fructose-containing items rather than starches.
At first glance, it seems backwards that fructose would prevent Vitamin A toxicity because they share metabolic dehydrogenase pathways and fructose has been thoroughly associated with fatty liver disease. However, ethanol consumption also shares metabolic dehydrogenase pathways with Vitamin A, is thoroughly linked with fatty liver disease, and is associated with low Vitamin A levels. I've proposed before that this may be due to constant upregulation of these metabolic pathways in the presence of fructose and/or ethanol consumption, just like liver detoxification pathways are upregulated when you eat a bunch of plant toxins - it is a hormetic response by the body in an attempt to stay ahead of the problematic substances constantly being ingested. Strict carnivore dieters often feel shitty reintroducing plant foods and/or alcohol probably because these detoxification pathways have been downregulated by the body when not necessary on a meat only diet. Personally, I tried having less than a shot of whiskey on an empty stomach last year after years of extremely low Vitamin A and plant toxin intake (and zero alcohol intake), and my head was swimming within minutes, I could barely walk. It took hours for the drunkenness to wear off while eating a meal.
I'm not saying it's a good idea to eat fructose or drink alcohol regularly (or smoke tobacco as others have suggested on this forum) in order to deplete Vitamin A because you're going to incur other harms in the process. But it might be playing a role in minimizing apparent Vitamin A toxicity in people like Paul (at the cost of tissue glycation and other issues).
Another aspect: It sounds like Paul never takes a break from eating liver. I think I recall him saying he forgot to bring it with him on a trip once and he felt awful without it. My personal experience has been that removing Vitamin A from the diet after an extended period of taking in large amounts of it initially leads to much worse symptoms than what you experience during chronic intake. I'm very curious if Paul would suddenly show signs of toxicity if he completely stopped eating liver for a week or so.
Lastly, UV light may degrade retinoids in the skin, but at what cost? What do those retinoids turn into, and are those compounds even more toxic than the original retinoids? I've seen indication in the literature that topical retinoids in creams/sunscreen increase carcinogenicity when UV levels are low, but may have a protective effect against carcinogenicity at very high levels of UV, suggesting that degradation of retinoids by UV results in toxic products but that the "shielding" effect of retinoids being damaged and converted to toxic products is better than having your skin cells taking the hit directly at very high levels of UV.
It seems to me that once you've taken in Vitamin A, the process of getting it out of the body is caustic whichever way it happens.
The definitive commentary on Paul Saladino's bloodwork is this 90 minute video from last fall by Judy Cho. If you haven't watched it, you shouldn't be commenting on Saladino's health.
https://youtu.be/bDaIhHbnuWk?si=B2lUQlQWmtaKLUpL
These are good questions. I could not find information regarding potential toxicity of UV-exposed vA degradation products. What is mentioned in the literature is that vA lessens erythema/sunburn, and it lessens DNA damage. Beyond the scientific evidence, I operate on the general assumption that God/evolution designed us to live outdoors, and that there are mechanisms in place that help us to do that. The fact that vA seems to be specifically tuned to absorb UVA and UVB, thereby protecting the DNA in our skin cells just makes sense to me from a teleological standpoint. However, it would be very poor design indeed if the breakdown products of vA had their own toxicity. My guess is that they don't, but if anybody finds evidence otherwise, please let me know.
Quote from Retinoicon on March 18, 2025, 2:30 pmThe definitive commentary on Paul Saladino's bloodwork is this 90 minute video from last fall by Judy Cho. If you haven't watched it, you shouldn't be commenting on Saladino's health.
It is an interesting assessment, but hardly definitive. If I recall correctly (I watched it back when it first came out), there is a notable absence of the mention of excess Vitamin A possibly contributing to Paul's problems. I remember thinking: finally, somebody pulling apart Paul's labwork. And then thinking at the end: damn, I wish it was somebody smarter than Judy Cho.
Having followed Judy for years and done a [ridiculously expensive] consultation with her outfit that got me nowhere, I think I can safely say her understanding of science and biology is greatly lacking. I spoke too highly of her and trusted her clinical reporting too much when posting a while back on this forum. Any authority she has is primarily the result of having a growing list of clientele on which to test ideas, much like he-who-shall-not-be-named who is a borderline imbecile when it comes to interpreting data. Judy is a graphics person who stumbled into the health space through her own health journey and capitalized on the absence of carnivore-specialist health practitioners. Not to say she isn't contributing meaningfully to the health space and helping people heal (I appreciate the variety of interviews she has shared publicly), but she is far from the rigorously trained scientific mind you would trust to analyze important information.
During my consultation, I pressed Judy's outfit on the possibility of my having chronic Vitamin A toxicity, and when I asked them where they got particular numbers they were reciting about enterohepatic circulation and duration of Vitamin A storage, they said they came from Grant. Grant is a great place to start your search for Vitamin A information, but I expect a practitioner to whom I'm paying shitloads of money for health advice to go looking for primary sources of information in the literature and do their own critical assessment. My own fault for thinking I was going to get anything useful from them...
I recall that she did not want to talk about vitamin A and liver in the video because she felt something else was going on. She has other videos (and web articles) on vitamin A and liver.
Quote from David on March 18, 2025, 3:31 pmThese are good questions. I could not find information regarding potential toxicity of UV-exposed vA degradation products. What is mentioned in the literature is that vA lessens erythema/sunburn, and it lessens DNA damage. Beyond the scientific evidence, I operate on the general assumption that God/evolution designed us to live outdoors, and that there are mechanisms in place that help us to do that. The fact that vA seems to be specifically tuned to absorb UVA and UVB, thereby protecting the DNA in our skin cells just makes sense to me from a teleological standpoint. However, it would be very poor design indeed if the breakdown products of vA had their own toxicity. My guess is that they don't, but if anybody finds evidence otherwise, please let me know.
Lots of citations to check out in this lay article on topical Vitamin A that will likely change your mind.
https://www.ewg.org/research/what-scientists-say-about-vitamin-sunscreen
Like I said before, there are probably some instances where Vitamin A in the skin does provide a net benefit, but also plenty others where it is simply detrimental. Retinoids are derived from plant carotenoids, which appear to have evolved to interact with solar input as a protectant for plant cells, so it's not a big surprise that retinoids would also interact with solar input. However, animals have different physiologies than plants, and retinoids are not identical to carotenoids, so it doesn't necessarily follow that retinoids would provide the same protection in animals as carotenoids do in plants.
Melanin and Vitamin D products appear to be the human's primary evolved defenses against UV hitting the skin.
Also, personally, I don't remember having many "age spots" on my skin while eating a high Vitamin A diet, but I sure got a lot of them after removing Vitamin A from my diet! I suspect Paul has dug himself a serious hole with his liver consumption and is only going to fully see how bad it is once he stops eating liver.
One way or another, I think he's going to be paying for it for the rest of his life, which is most certainly not going to be 120 years long lol. He'll probably be a washed up rat in his 70s if karmic revenge doesn't nip him earlier for hawking liver supplements.
@tricky I think age spots are mainly from issues with metals especially iron-copper and from PUFA fats.. Vit A has to do more with skin cells turnover = faster depletion of stem cells. So with vit A excess you would see different types of skin issues like thinning of the skin and I think that is the main reason why Paul looks much older(apart from the fact that he has very low body fat level which that alone will make you look much older..) Simply combination of a lot of sun exposure with vit A will make your skin age much more faster..
Quote from Retinoicon on March 18, 2025, 2:30 pmThe definitive commentary on Paul Saladino's bloodwork is this 90 minute video from last fall by Judy Cho. If you haven't watched it, you shouldn't be commenting on Saladino's health.
https://youtu.be/bDaIhHbnuWk?si=B2lUQlQWmtaKLUpL
This Judy Cho is clueless lady.. SHe obviously never did any serious physical activity or sports on some level. There is no way keto diet is ideal for very active people who are surfing 3 hours a day and sweating their ass the whole day in Costa Rica heat. Not to mention Paul in comment section is saying he would love to do podcast with her and discuss blood work with some long term keto/carnivore. No answer from her. Wonder why. Because she knows she knows nothing when it comes to diet of healthy very active people. It is easy to do keto/carnivore protocols for inactive obese people. Just do keto drop boy fat and you will be healthier. wow how many brain cells you need for that.. Not many..
This is another carnivore/keto quack. Talking to bunch of low carb sheeps who believe him. Meanwhile if he did this speech to real athletes and their trainers, sports doctors they would laugh so loudly that nobody would hear that quack speaking. Cyclists going faster and faster because they are ingesting more and more carbs/sugars per hour. Pushing up to 150-200g per hour or what you think is the diet of best marathon runners in the world from Africa? Nothing but carbs from corn, rice, potatoes, millet etc.. and of course gels loaded with maltodextrin during the race. Or what you think are eating NFL, NHL, soccer players etc.. They all are carbing up like crazy. Putting down gels or drinking carb mixes every time they can. Or show me one UFC fighter who goes into the cage fighting while in ketosis. SO from endurance to athletes like strongman, powerlifters nobody is in ketosis. You need muscles and liver loaded with glycogen and if the sport activity is longer than 1hour you need to keep replenishing sugars and keeping that blood sugar high. Meanwhile this quack will tell you that you don't need to eat anything. Because you have plenty of energy in fat cells etc.? Performance in sports = high intensity = the higher intensity you are doing the more glucose you are burning = you can't compete in any sports without enough glucose. If he would talk about slow walking next to your 90yo grandpa that I would agree that you can be in ketosis for that level of intensity LOL... I mean it is one thing to talk about how plants have toxins in them, how carnivore will help your autoimmune issues or whatever all that makes some sense, but to start talking about how diet deficient in glucose is even better for maximum human performance. I mean how stupid or ignorant you have to be to push this idea. Especially when you see what the best athletes are doing in each sport and they are doing the exact opposite of what he is saying.. The only explanation I have for this is that brain needs loads of glucose to work the best and he is lacking some glucose heh. How ironic.. Time will tell if this Dr. will preach this or if he will be alive at all in next 10-20 years. Same goes for Baker and all of them.. If I see old annoying Dr. speaking it is usually low fat vegan not bacon/egg eater again how ironic..