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Please answer these 5 questions
Two things I am actually asking myself:
1. Is it only the synthetic "A" which causes the problem? Anybody here got ill without actually ingesting synthetic or added A?
2. For Ronnie and cincerning gut flira, I think it is more complicated. Suppose you have a specific bacteria which is transmitted from mother to baby since thousands of year and is not found in "Nature" anymore. If antibiotics kill say 70-80% of the bacteria it can groe back but what if you kill 100% and none is left? Then technically only a fecal transplamt from someone who has the bacteria can do the trick otherwise you cannot regrow it. Suppose that bacteria is necessary for oxalate management for example, then you become poisoned by oxalates and cannot manage them anymore. You get the point.
So the most interesting would be to know if someone got ill just by eating natural foods rich in A?
For me, synthetic VA would still have been a very small part of my total VA intake. It absolutely is possible to get ill with natural VA as well.
Case study of a guy who developed toxicity problems after eating lots of beef liver for some years.
- Have you taken "A" in synthetic form such as accutane etc.?
Only from fortified foods and a prenatal supplement (retinyl palmitate).
- Has your diet been rich in foods with added (synthetic) "A"?
I don't think so. Apart from a cup or two of milk I wouldn't have been exposed much to synthetic A in my diet from childhood.
- Have you poisoned yourself mainly with plant-derived "A" such as carotenes etc.?
That's my current standing. I seem to be bothered more by carotenes than by animal A. I haven't gone very low to no A though. I find this too difficult to implement in my current lifestyle. The added stress from worrying about small intakes is not worth it in my opinion. I do not have really uncomfortable symptoms though: fatigue, brain fog, gut issues, insomnia, skin issues on hands and anxiety mainly. I was fed baby food purees as a youngster and some colorful veggies most days after I graduated purees. It wasn't outrageous amounts though. I'm thinking I have some genetic/gut predisposition that affect my ability to handle many colored fruits and vegetables, I haven't look into this yet.
I upped my veggies intake in recent years in an attempt to be healthier and I only got worse... I'm thinking oxalates might be problematic as well. Since when I tried to eat healthier, my diet was way higher in oxalates from buckwheat, dark chocolates, spinach and other veggies and nuts...
- Have you poisoned yourself mainly with animal-based "A"?
I don't think it's possible. I have always had quite a bit of dairy in my diet, but liver was never eaten in regular or high amounts. I also disliked eggs as a kid, but started eating them later on.
- What was basically your staple food(s) before having health problems?
I can't answer this question since I think I've had issues since childhood. I was a shy and not really social kid in a somewhat autistic manner. I'm thankful for my mom to not have pursued further diagnosis after inquiries from teachers. I was fine apart from being shy. I now attribute this to social anxiety mainly which I find worsens as I eat more colorful plants.
My current established staples are wheat, oats, potatoes, apples and applesauce, dairy of any forms (avoiding fortification with full fat milk), bananas, some blueberries, cucumber, onions, some tomatoes and meat of any kind. Maple syrup and honey as sweeteners.
- Yes a little. 6 months or so taking RDA as added supplement. 2 - 3 bottles worth or FCLO approx. 4 years ago. Took astaxanthin for a couple of summers.
- N0
- No but did GAPS diet for couple of years when ate plenty of carrots and butternut squash
- Yes most likely: 18 mths of large amounts of dairy and weekly liver serving.
- Unsure. As child what I would consider normal home cooked food. Meat, dairy, eggs, potatoes but not excessive amounts of any. Veg with meals but again not excessive. Cereal for breakfast. Bread based lunch. Some fruit, mostly apples and bananas. Some liver but not often. Did like liver pate in sandwiches but had other fillings as well. Live in UK so dairy not fortified. Most unhelpful eating occurred after health problems started in attempt to get well again. Period of vegetarianism and then veganism but not eating vast amounts of high carotenoid foods.
10 years of so of SSRI's which inhibit bodies ability to break down retinoids. Also "allergic to sun" as child and prescribed sun cream which was applied liberally and may or may not have contained VA.
- Have you taken "A" in synthetic form such as accutane etc.?
Accutane; two rounds about 10yrs apart
- Has your diet been rich in foods with added (synthetic) "A"?
Fortified dairy as a daily staple, also experimented with high dose retinyl palmitate (300K/day)
- Have you poisoned yourself mainly with plant-derived "A" such as carotenes etc.?
RP carrot salad and eatinf the rainbow daily staples
- Have you poisoned yourself mainly with animal-based "A"?
CLO, liver, eggs, pork, butter, dairy
- What was basically your staple food(s) before having health problems?
All the above!
- Have you taken "A" in synthetic form such as accutane etc.?
I had one round of accutane about 17 years ago. When I was young, my parents gave me multiple vitamins in addition to individual vitamins, including vitamin A. I took a multiple vitamin for most of my adult life, and also dabbled in taking vitamin A supplements, cod liver oil, and desiccated liver.
- Has your diet been rich in foods with added (synthetic) "A"?
Not so much as an adult.
- Have you poisoned yourself mainly with plant-derived "A" such as carotenes etc.?
I used cronometer.com to calculate that the carotenoid content of my previous diet (heavy in carrots, other vegetables, and a ton of chili pepper powder) was 46,000 IU per day. So yes, I'd say so.
- Have you poisoned yourself mainly with animal-based "A"?
I'm not sure. I believe I was at my worst when eating an extremely high carotenoid diet (see above), but had similar bad experiences while taking cod liver oil and desiccated liver.
- What was basically your staple food(s) before having health problems?
The only times I have felt healthy in my life were when I was eating mostly junk food, eg. high sugar, high processed carb foods. I tend to favor "white foods" like white bread, pretzels, white potatoes, potato chips, sugar, marshmallows, etc. I eat meat because I know I need it and because it makes me feel good, not because I love it. I felt (and looked) the least healthy when eating a high-vegetable diet.
Used 0.1% Retin A on face and neck for 15 years. Used Estroban irregularly for 1 year. Took multi’s For 5 years prior to that but they contained beta-carotene
Drank 1c of low-fat milk with added “A” daily
Plant derived "A" in large amounts every day. Diet consisted of mainly kale, carrots, broccoli, spinach, peppers, sweet potatoes, pumpkin purée and tons of dried spices including chipotle pepper, watermelon, cantaloupe
Animal based "A" from cheeses, salmon, DHA/EPA supplements (one year’s worth), milk, pork, chicken
Staple foods were mostly vegetables, fruits, and cheeses
I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and have been low A since March, 2019. Since cutting out all veggies except cucumber, celeriac, mushrooms, celery, and all fruits except peeled apples and an occasional banana I am over medicated with T4. Just got my lab results and TSH is 0.24 (range is 0.35 - 4.94) Free T4 is .86 ( range .71 - 2.23). Interesting as I had my dose cut back 01/2019 after following a Ray Peat inspired diet with more carbs and more meat. It seems that removing the high A foods is decreasing my need for T4 as well.
Thank you for the answers.
I'm off for a month and will try a little experiment with the help of a person who is extremely "A" toxic and ready to do the experiment. I will keep you uptated in a month or so.
Wish you a good summer.
Dino