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Retinol in Casein bypassing liver
Quote from
Orion on March 20, 2019, 11:38 am
Been some discussion on the Ray Peat forum that this is not possible:
"Of course, it’s not just that casein naturally contains vitamin A that makes it a big risk. Rather, it is that the vitamin A is wrapped up in the protein, and that enables it to bypass the body’s normal pathway for storage in the liver. The casein protein wrapper is allowing the retinol molecule to slip undetected beneath the body’s otherwise protective retinol radar, so to speak, and penetrate deeper into these other organ tissues."
@ggenereux2014 wonder if you have further studies to share or elaborate how you came to the conclusion.
Many thanks!
Been some discussion on the Ray Peat forum that this is not possible:
"Of course, it’s not just that casein naturally contains vitamin A that makes it a big risk. Rather, it is that the vitamin A is wrapped up in the protein, and that enables it to bypass the body’s normal pathway for storage in the liver. The casein protein wrapper is allowing the retinol molecule to slip undetected beneath the body’s otherwise protective retinol radar, so to speak, and penetrate deeper into these other organ tissues."
@ggenereux2014 wonder if you have further studies to share or elaborate how you came to the conclusion.
Many thanks!
Quote from Guest on March 20, 2019, 12:20 pm
It’s based on multiple sources. One, is by studying the structure of the casein protein, with its large internal cavities.
Here’s a reference to one of many reports documenting the retinol binding inside of the casein micelle
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4561047/
Casein micelles in fortified commercial skim milk were found to act as carriers of up to 40% of the total vitamin A added to milk.
Another source I had was a report from a manufacturer of feeds used in lab diets, they published the retinol content specifically of casein.
Some of it was also based on private email correspondence with another academic researcher in the field. And another regarding the bovine casein found in the DTap and selected other vaccines.
I’m sorry, I don’t follow the Ray Peat forum.
Grant
It’s based on multiple sources. One, is by studying the structure of the casein protein, with its large internal cavities.
Here’s a reference to one of many reports documenting the retinol binding inside of the casein micelle
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4561047/
Casein micelles in fortified commercial skim milk were found to act as carriers of up to 40% of the total vitamin A added to milk.
Another source I had was a report from a manufacturer of feeds used in lab diets, they published the retinol content specifically of casein.
Some of it was also based on private email correspondence with another academic researcher in the field. And another regarding the bovine casein found in the DTap and selected other vaccines.
I’m sorry, I don’t follow the Ray Peat forum.
Grant
Quote from
Orion on March 20, 2019, 12:33 pm
Thanks Grant, I think it is agreed that casein carries the retinol molecule, but how does it bypass the liver into tissue storage is the point being discussed? I will try to find that other study above to read more.
tagging your avatar so you don't miss @ggenereux2014
Thanks Grant, I think it is agreed that casein carries the retinol molecule, but how does it bypass the liver into tissue storage is the point being discussed? I will try to find that other study above to read more.
tagging your avatar so you don't miss @ggenereux2014
Quote from Guest on March 20, 2019, 1:23 pm
Ok, I understand.
There were some reports documenting that at least some of the milk proteins do cross the intestinal barrier and enter blood serum in healthy people. I’ll see if I can find a reference to it. And, there were some other reports indicating that the transfer rate increased in the case of IBD/IBS or inflamed tight junctions (AKA leaky gut). The liver does not accumulate or store serum proteins, AFAIK.
Grant
Ok, I understand.
There were some reports documenting that at least some of the milk proteins do cross the intestinal barrier and enter blood serum in healthy people. I’ll see if I can find a reference to it. And, there were some other reports indicating that the transfer rate increased in the case of IBD/IBS or inflamed tight junctions (AKA leaky gut). The liver does not accumulate or store serum proteins, AFAIK.
Grant
Quote from Guest on March 20, 2019, 4:44 pm
Grant, here is the thread on the Ray Peat Forum. Would be awesome if you made a visit. 🙂
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/grant-genereuxs-theory-of-vitamin-a-toxicity.24722/
- Replies: 2831 Views: 123,233
Grant, here is the thread on the Ray Peat Forum. Would be awesome if you made a visit. 🙂
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/grant-genereuxs-theory-of-vitamin-a-toxicity.24722/
- Replies: 2831 Views: 123,233
Quote from
ggenereux on March 20, 2019, 5:18 pm
OK, I'll try to check it out when I have a bit more time. Last I was reading it, (page 50ish) it was sounding like a rather heated debate. I don’t think debates are very useful. We are all in this together. Maybe people should just take a step back from all the minutia, and debating the microbiology details of it etc., and ask the more basic questions:
1) Are the chronic diseases (specifically the autoimmune diseases) really chronic poisonings?
2) What candidate chemical(s) in our foods can possibly have cause it on this scale?
3) What clean diet would eliminate those same chemicals?
4) What are the real-world results of that diet telling us?
Grant
OK, I'll try to check it out when I have a bit more time. Last I was reading it, (page 50ish) it was sounding like a rather heated debate. I don’t think debates are very useful. We are all in this together. Maybe people should just take a step back from all the minutia, and debating the microbiology details of it etc., and ask the more basic questions:
1) Are the chronic diseases (specifically the autoimmune diseases) really chronic poisonings?
2) What candidate chemical(s) in our foods can possibly have cause it on this scale?
3) What clean diet would eliminate those same chemicals?
4) What are the real-world results of that diet telling us?
Grant
Josh and r have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Orion on March 21, 2019, 5:20 am
Quote from
ggenereux on March 20, 2019, 5:18 pm
OK, I'll try to check it out when I have a bit more time. Last I was reading it, (page 50ish) it was sounding like a rather heated debate. I don’t think debates are very useful. We are all in this together. Maybe people should just take a step back from all the minutia, and debating the microbiology details of it etc., and ask the more basic questions:
1) Are the chronic diseases (specifically the autoimmune diseases) really chronic poisonings?
2) What candidate chemical(s) in our foods can possibly have cause it on this scale?
3) What clean diet would eliminate those same chemicals?
4) What are the real-world results of that diet telling us?
Grant
It is the the most viewed and replied thread on RPF of all time now, so your theory has definitely sparked debate. Since most of us are early in experimenting only time will tell. It is good to see more people are reading the ebooks and starting to raise questions.
Quote from
ggenereux on March 20, 2019, 5:18 pm
OK, I'll try to check it out when I have a bit more time. Last I was reading it, (page 50ish) it was sounding like a rather heated debate. I don’t think debates are very useful. We are all in this together. Maybe people should just take a step back from all the minutia, and debating the microbiology details of it etc., and ask the more basic questions:
1) Are the chronic diseases (specifically the autoimmune diseases) really chronic poisonings?
2) What candidate chemical(s) in our foods can possibly have cause it on this scale?
3) What clean diet would eliminate those same chemicals?
4) What are the real-world results of that diet telling us?
Grant
It is the the most viewed and replied thread on RPF of all time now, so your theory has definitely sparked debate. Since most of us are early in experimenting only time will tell. It is good to see more people are reading the ebooks and starting to raise questions.
Quote from Guest on March 23, 2019, 1:23 pm
Quote from ggenereux on March 20, 2019, 5:18 pm
OK, I'll try to check it out when I have a bit more time. Last I was reading it, (page 50ish) it was sounding like a rather heated debate. I don’t think debates are very useful. We are all in this together. Maybe people should just take a step back from all the minutia, and debating the microbiology details of it etc., and ask the more basic questions:
1) Are the chronic diseases (specifically the autoimmune diseases) really chronic poisonings?
2) What candidate chemical(s) in our foods can possibly have cause it on this scale?
3) What clean diet would eliminate those same chemicals?
4) What are the real-world results of that diet telling us?
Grant
Grant, it's hard to reconcile that you think all autoimmune diseases are caused by Vitamin A poisoning and can be cured by eliminating Vitamin A, when Dr. Coimbra believes that all autoimmune diseases can be cured by high dose Vitamin D (known as the Coimbra protocol). What are your thoughts on this?
Quote from ggenereux on March 20, 2019, 5:18 pm
OK, I'll try to check it out when I have a bit more time. Last I was reading it, (page 50ish) it was sounding like a rather heated debate. I don’t think debates are very useful. We are all in this together. Maybe people should just take a step back from all the minutia, and debating the microbiology details of it etc., and ask the more basic questions:
1) Are the chronic diseases (specifically the autoimmune diseases) really chronic poisonings?
2) What candidate chemical(s) in our foods can possibly have cause it on this scale?
3) What clean diet would eliminate those same chemicals?
4) What are the real-world results of that diet telling us?
Grant
Grant, it's hard to reconcile that you think all autoimmune diseases are caused by Vitamin A poisoning and can be cured by eliminating Vitamin A, when Dr. Coimbra believes that all autoimmune diseases can be cured by high dose Vitamin D (known as the Coimbra protocol). What are your thoughts on this?
Quote from Guest on March 23, 2019, 3:01 pm
High dose rat poison works by surpressing immune system. Hard to reconcile that you think drugs are the real cure. You have to look at causes.
High dose rat poison works by surpressing immune system. Hard to reconcile that you think drugs are the real cure. You have to look at causes.
Quote from Guest on March 23, 2019, 3:14 pm
The Coimbra protocol is dangerous. Come off the poisons and get to foods that heal.
The Coimbra protocol is dangerous. Come off the poisons and get to foods that heal.
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