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Retinol in eggs and dairy
I have a rather silly question that has probably been answered here already, but I will risk posting it again. Pardon if its' silliness is too evident.
If vitamin A is a poison that the body recognizes, produces RBP to deal with it, stores in the liver when overflowed, excretes when possible etc., why is it that animal females (this is inc. homo sapiens) transfer this poison with milk to a newborn, when the most expected outcome would be to give the newborns the most nutritious and posion-free food? How is it that the human body in general manages vit. A toxicity, but fails to prevent it from getting into milk? The same with hens and eggs. Why would hens' bodies let supposedly toxic retinol into eggs, when it is in its' best interest not to do so?
Thanks.
I was thinking if maybe there is a time when vitamin A is needed, and as it is said to be also pro growth, it makes sense that babies benefit from it. No animal except humans drink milk later in life.
That said I am not sure milk product cold not be of benefits for some people too, at least many people seem to tolerate it just fine. But many does not. I dont. Especially not pasteurized milk products. I can eat some raw milk cheeses once in a while without negative effect, I used to eat lots of those until I realized I was vitamin A toxic lol. But I did not get other symptoms from the raw dairy, that I got from the pasteurized one.
Retinol is not in breast milk and egg yolks because the body wants it there. Rather, it's simply because it is a fat soluble molecule. It’s the same with other toxic molecules that are found in breast milk, such as benzine, DDT, jet fuels, etc.
Determinants of persistent organic pollutant (POP) concentrations in human breast milk of a cross-sectional sample of primiparous mothers in Belgium
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412019309080
So, the fact that these chemicals end up in breast milk, etc, are not due to some wanted biological process. It’s simply a mechanism of the physics of chemistry.
Although the body and the liver are very good at capturing these toxic molecules, it can’t do that 100% efficiently. Especially so when these molecules are already emulsified within fat particles and proteins. The fact that the liver and other tissue cells are able detect single molecules of retinol and wrap it up in a RBP is simply stunning IMO.
RE: what's the saving grace?
I think the saving grace is the liver, and how effective it really is. It’s sized appropriately to do the job until we are past our reproductive years, at least under normal circumstances.
Why isn’t the liver 100% efficient and say for 100+ years? That’s a question only God can answer.
And, no, I don't think mother's are purposely detoxing it.
Yes it is just nonsense the idea retinol is only a toxic molecule. Retinoic acid is needed to supply ceruloplasmin synthesis which is something it seems @ggenereux2014 has not even looked into. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022316623083426
As zinc rises this increases retinol binding protein and retinol comes out of the liver, then it gets transformed by adh aldh into retinoic acid, which increases ceruloplasmin and copper come out of the liver together with iron. Ceruloplasmin helps to transport iron out of the liver.
The issue with Vitamin A is when you become toxic in it, then your bile will be inhibited and you will be deficient in fatty acids.
Quote from ggenereux on November 22, 2023, 9:59 amThe fact that the liver and other tissue cells are able detect single molecules of retinol and wrap it up in a RBP is simply stunning IMO.
This suggests me two further questions to deepen the inquiry.
- Do other animals' mechanism of dealing with vit. A is similar as humans' or did we develop our own specific pathways?
- Could the fact that homo sapiens have retinoic acid receptors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinoic_acid_receptor) be interpreted in the "vit. A toxic" scenario as body's developped through years (because of constant exposure) response to dealing with the poison? (not as most popularly it is believed to deliver vit. A into tissues in order for it to "make stuff")
Hi @alexm,
RE: Retinoic acid is needed
There are many claims about vA and retinoic being essential for a wide variety of functions, such as regulating cell differentiation, vision, immunity, etc, etc. But, we are (slowly) proving those claims to be simply untrue.
You can believe whatever you want to, but I’ll go with the real world evidence on it.
That evidence is showing that there is absolutely no need for retinoic acid in the human body. It is also beyond any doubt a very serious toxin. Therefore, it is a toxin, and only a toxin.
Hi @jessica2,
I think what we are proving is that the claim that so called vitamin-A is essential, and therefore a vitamin, is completely wrong.
Not a single person here has reported that their skin and other organs have disintegrated, as claimed it should due to vA deficiency. Not a single person here has reported going blind as claimed they should have by now. Likewise for a lot of the other dreaded symptoms of vA deficiency. It is simply not happening.
Yes, some people, including myself, have reported poor night vision, or night blindness. But, that is also one of the key symptoms of RA toxicity.
I totally agree that most people are making very slow progress, and for some not much progress at all, but that’s not my point. My point is that if it is not a vitamin, then what does that leave it to be when you know for sure that it’s highly toxic?
RE: I just think the jurys out on VA's utility in the body.
Oh, yes. I think this will take at least another 10 years to really prove out.
And clearly, using an elimination diet alone is not very effective.
Quote from Jessica2 on November 22, 2023, 5:43 pmNot really much is being proven except you can be healthy without sky high amounts of VA. Thats not really groundbreaking. Thats already known and known for a while.
Grant has almost proven that you can be healthy without any VA whatsoever. We can’t act like this is known.
A decade thriving without the first established “essential” vitamin- this is groundbreaking.
Vitamin A is a vitamin in which deficiency is very uncommon and toxicity is common.
If my serum retinol ever tests below 20mcg/dL (0.7umol/L) I will include some vitamin A rich foods in my diet. I'm thinking chicken wings, lemon meringue pie, watermelon and ice cream.