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Roles of Vitamin A Metabolism in the Development of Hepatic Insulin Resistance
Here's a paper documenting the complex causal interaction of VA, RA, and Insulin resistance .... what the author describes as the "vicious cycle"
I'm thinking that the insulin connection has been not given enough attention in our project here.
The insulin connection might help explain why some people encounter the detox setback while others do not.
Roles of Vitamin A Metabolism in the Development of Hepatic Insulin Resistance
Wow that paper is so far over my head; I'm glad it exists, however I'm already totally on-board that VA-overload is related to type-2. How about this for a simple explanation of how VA toxicity and diabetes are related?:
Vitamin A overload is known to cause liver damage in some people (wikipedia even says so)
Liver damage and diabetes are common bedfellows (google says 50 %). The liver becomes insulin resistant.
It seems my husband has reacted to our high vitamin A diet with NAFLD, and is heading toward diabetes type 2 according to his doc... (perhaps you could say this is the "metabololic syndrome appearance" of VA toxicity) while I, on the other hand, might have reacted to our high vitamin A diet differently, perhaps storing the VA in other places in my body (perhaps you could say this is the "autoimmune appearance" of VA toxicity). I think it is interesting that although I have my problems, and some quite sticky (real damage has been done) I wouldn't say type 2 diabetes is my issue.
I'm not sure that only the people with this sort of storage pattern (around and in the liver) are the only ones who are going to have detox issues! Detox isn't going to be fun for anyone, and certain things are going to make it worse, the things that stir the pot.
Very interesting study!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6658188/
"Modest wine consumption is associated with reduced prevalence of suspected NAFLD. The current study supports the safety of one glass of wine per day for cardioprotection in patients at risk for both coronary heart disease and NAFLD."
Strangely enough, this is one of the differences between husband and me. Me with my daily glass of wine.
Once, and I don't remember where, someone here on Grant's website said that alcohol sends VA out of the liver and into the tissues (I think it was also said somewhere that conversely that marijuana sends VA out of the tissues and into the liver... Hubs and I don't do any MJ... so can't comment there LOL. ) But perhaps there is something to the idea that perhaps a small amount of alcohol per day has saved my liver? I am not very alcohol tolerant, so my levels have always been small. I can totally see that larger levels of alcohol might themselves be liver-toxic. I think this particular study ^^ does seem to show that wine is even better than other alcohols for helping.
Perhaps the French Paradox is about moderate wine consumption? Does wine protect the French from all that butter?
signed... hopeful!
PS
"Thus the so-called 'French Paradox' (a low mortality rate specifically from cardiovascular diseases) may be due mainly to the regular consumption of wine."
I think once you have gone toward diabetes type 2, you may also be in need of dietary changes that further reduce your choices. It's bad enough trying to avoid VA. I can see how you might not do well on a meat/carb "prison food" diet. I recently came across some interesting lifestyle ideas to try on husband, but will post them on the thread about type 2 diabetes. https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/what-is-the-root-cause-of-insulin-resistance/?part=9
Interestingly, olive oil helps NAFLD, insulin resistance as well.
Quote from Armin on October 24, 2023, 10:46 amInterestingly, olive oil helps NAFLD, insulin resistance as well.
Not really, and this is a trap I fell into that is making the clean-up of vA way worse.
Not only does the MUFA/PUFA increase the probability of NAFLD and Insulin resistance, olive oil upregulates the absorption of forms of VitA, and contains copious amounts of Vitamin E which can help increase storage.
Quote from Shannon on October 26, 2023, 10:19 amQuote from Armin on October 24, 2023, 10:46 amInterestingly, olive oil helps NAFLD, insulin resistance as well.
Not really, and this is a trap I fell into that is making the clean-up of vA way worse.
Not only does the MUFA/PUFA increase the probability of NAFLD and Insulin resistance, olive oil upregulates the absorption of forms of VitA, and contains copious amounts of Vitamin E which can help increase storage.
I disagree based on what research says.
MUFA are the least likely to cause NAFLD.
MUFA doesn't increase absorption of VitA anymore than other fats/I'm not eating VitA sources
Olive oil contains 13% RDA of VitE per tablespoon. Not obsene amounts. Where is VitE increasing storage if I'm not eating VitA?
Quote from Shannon on October 26, 2023, 10:19 amQuote from Armin on October 24, 2023, 10:46 amInterestingly, olive oil helps NAFLD, insulin resistance as well.
Not really, and this is a trap I fell into that is making the clean-up of vA way worse.
Not only does the MUFA/PUFA increase the probability of NAFLD and Insulin resistance, olive oil upregulates the absorption of forms of VitA, and contains copious amounts of Vitamin E which can help increase storage.
Where did you get this information from?
Quote from Armin on October 26, 2023, 10:29 amQuote from Shannon on October 26, 2023, 10:19 amQuote from Armin on October 24, 2023, 10:46 amInterestingly, olive oil helps NAFLD, insulin resistance as well.
Not really, and this is a trap I fell into that is making the clean-up of vA way worse.
Not only does the MUFA/PUFA increase the probability of NAFLD and Insulin resistance, olive oil upregulates the absorption of forms of VitA, and contains copious amounts of Vitamin E which can help increase storage.
I disagree based on what research says.
MUFA are the least likely to cause NAFLD.
MUFA doesn't increase absorption of VitA anymore than other fats/I'm not eating VitA sources
Olive oil contains 13% RDA of VitE per tablespoon. Not obsene amounts. Where is VitE increasing storage if I'm not eating VitA?
Compared to other foods, it's very dense with Vitamin E. I used to consume at least 6 oz / day...over a liter a week. I'm not exactly negative about Vitamin E, and I am not 100% confident in it's ability to "expand Vitamin A storage". More like ~50% sure.
Fire in a bottle has focused on quite a few angles as to why MUFA does indeed cause Insulin resistance. He talks about this in the video below. And, while MUFA does indeed activate PPAR-alpha then cascades to disrupting glycolysis (the "direct" opposition to insulin). Note: When I was eating my high fat diet, this was less of an issue because of the lack of incoming glucose to even run glycolysis. Though I was creating a mounting PUFA clearance issue and guaranteeing large % of absorption of carotenoids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kymeb1mcfhI
And, regardless of this, many olives actually convert much of their oleic acid to linoleic acid. This seems to be based off of the genetic lineage of the source olive(s) ... and the amount of time they spend ripening on the vine. Some olives don't possess the enzyme that will convert oleic to linoleic, some do.
I have separately been interested in the formation of oxylipins.
And, even recently been focused on how malondialdehyde forms.
Quote from Shannon on October 26, 2023, 7:51 pmQuote from Armin on October 26, 2023, 10:29 amQuote from Shannon on October 26, 2023, 10:19 amQuote from Armin on October 24, 2023, 10:46 amInterestingly, olive oil helps NAFLD, insulin resistance as well.
Not really, and this is a trap I fell into that is making the clean-up of vA way worse.
Not only does the MUFA/PUFA increase the probability of NAFLD and Insulin resistance, olive oil upregulates the absorption of forms of VitA, and contains copious amounts of Vitamin E which can help increase storage.
I disagree based on what research says.
MUFA are the least likely to cause NAFLD.
MUFA doesn't increase absorption of VitA anymore than other fats/I'm not eating VitA sources
Olive oil contains 13% RDA of VitE per tablespoon. Not obsene amounts. Where is VitE increasing storage if I'm not eating VitA?
Compared to other foods, it's very dense with Vitamin E. I used to consume at least 6 oz / day...over a liter a week. I'm not exactly negative about Vitamin E, and I am not 100% confident in it's ability to "expand Vitamin A storage". More like ~50% sure.
Fire in a bottle has focused on quite a few angles as to why MUFA does indeed cause Insulin resistance. He talks about this in the video below. And, while MUFA does indeed activate PPAR-alpha then cascades to disrupting glycolysis (the "direct" opposition to insulin). Note: When I was eating my high fat diet, this was less of an issue because of the lack of incoming glucose to even run glycolysis. Though I was creating a mounting PUFA clearance issue and guaranteeing large % of absorption of carotenoids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kymeb1mcfhI
And, regardless of this, many olives actually convert much of their oleic acid to linoleic acid. This seems to be based off of the genetic lineage of the source olive(s) ... and the amount of time they spend ripening on the vine. Some olives don't possess the enzyme that will convert oleic to linoleic, some do.
I have separately been interested in the formation of oxylipins.
And, even recently been focused on how malondialdehyde forms.
My current diet is green beans, white rice, beef, and olive oil for the most part. I have lost body fat and feel the best I have in a very long time. My brain actually works again and skin is much better than before. 2 years ago I went the beef/beans route and gained at least 25 lbs of fat in a few months.
An interesting phenomenon that has happened recently is that I no longer get the post-prandial stress response I would get when not having olive oil with my meals.
Also, the polyphenols and other compounds in olive use support lacto and bfido bacteria while suppressing pathogenic ones.
From what I have read, MUFA is burned quicker than the other fat sources, sparing the damage to the liver.