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Safe sources of Copper on a Low Vitamin A Diet
Quote from
Даниил on June 29, 2021, 1:46 pm
Hello everyone, I'm new here)
So, my level of copper and cerruloplasmin in my blood is at the lower limit of the norm. I have copper deficiency symptoms such as balance problems, memory problems and a few gray hairs on my head (I'm 21). I've also taken huge doses of vitamin A for acne in the past, so I'm pretty sure I have vitamin A toxicity. In general, I want to make sure I'm getting enough copper, especially since I'm used to eating a lot of sugar after Peating. But Grant's rice and beef diet appears to be low in copper. I don't want to eat whole grains and nuts because of PUFAs and other toxins. I ate squid at one time, but I hate seafood. Now I am completely tired of squids and I can no longer force myself to eat them. Now I take copper from mushrooms and chocolate, but I'm not sure that much of that is good idea. So, what sources of copper on low VA do you know? I was thinking about beef tongue and beef heart, but I'm not sure about the long-term safety of these products. Beef heart tastes bitter.
Hello everyone, I'm new here)
So, my level of copper and cerruloplasmin in my blood is at the lower limit of the norm. I have copper deficiency symptoms such as balance problems, memory problems and a few gray hairs on my head (I'm 21). I've also taken huge doses of vitamin A for acne in the past, so I'm pretty sure I have vitamin A toxicity. In general, I want to make sure I'm getting enough copper, especially since I'm used to eating a lot of sugar after Peating. But Grant's rice and beef diet appears to be low in copper. I don't want to eat whole grains and nuts because of PUFAs and other toxins. I ate squid at one time, but I hate seafood. Now I am completely tired of squids and I can no longer force myself to eat them. Now I take copper from mushrooms and chocolate, but I'm not sure that much of that is good idea. So, what sources of copper on low VA do you know? I was thinking about beef tongue and beef heart, but I'm not sure about the long-term safety of these products. Beef heart tastes bitter.
Quote from
Orion on June 29, 2021, 2:02 pm
@daniil, search @jiri posts, lots of helpful stuff on copper. I think the take away is modern diets are not copper deficient, you most likely are overloaded with copper and body not using it properly (poor liver function - cholestasis). meat, rice, mushrooms and beans will provide adequate copper.
@daniil, search @jiri posts, lots of helpful stuff on copper. I think the take away is modern diets are not copper deficient, you most likely are overloaded with copper and body not using it properly (poor liver function - cholestasis). meat, rice, mushrooms and beans will provide adequate copper.
Quote from
Даниил on June 29, 2021, 2:27 pm
Quote from
Orion on June 29, 2021, 2:02 pm
@daniil, search @jiri posts, lots of helpful stuff on copper. I think the take away is modern diets are not copper deficient, you most likely are overloaded with copper and body not using it properly (poor liver function - cholestasis). meat, rice, mushrooms and beans will provide adequate copper.
To be honest, I don't know if I have copper overload or not... On the other hand, some people says that if you have malabsorption or yeast overgrowth, you may not be able to absorb copper. I have a fairly high level of zinc in my blood test and a normal level of copper in my urine. I could not understand this topic and decided to just get the copper norm.
I don't want to eat beans. Getting enough copper from mushrooms is what I'm doing now
Quote from
Orion on June 29, 2021, 2:02 pm
@daniil, search @jiri posts, lots of helpful stuff on copper. I think the take away is modern diets are not copper deficient, you most likely are overloaded with copper and body not using it properly (poor liver function - cholestasis). meat, rice, mushrooms and beans will provide adequate copper.
To be honest, I don't know if I have copper overload or not... On the other hand, some people says that if you have malabsorption or yeast overgrowth, you may not be able to absorb copper. I have a fairly high level of zinc in my blood test and a normal level of copper in my urine. I could not understand this topic and decided to just get the copper norm.
I don't want to eat beans. Getting enough copper from mushrooms is what I'm doing now
@daniil
I think what @orion is suggesting is that you may not be able to get your copper levels up to normal no matter how much copper you eat, because that copper is being sequestered in the liver due to other imbalances like Vitamin A toxicity. If your body is storing a bunch of copper in the liver without using it, then eating more copper is just adding to a hidden overload that is going to cause more problems.
I've been eating mostly ruminant muscle meat and fat for almost a year, and I became concerned that I might be running into a copper deficit from getting so much zinc. I have been eating heart on occasion but thought it might not supply enough copper (BTW I find that heart tastes rich and somewhat sweet, no bitterness whatsoever unlike liver...not sure why it tastes bitter to you, but it might be your body telling you not to eat more copper?). So I tried supplementing small amounts of copper bisglycinate (no more than the RDA) at meals and feel that it made me kind of jittery with hypoglycemic sensations and put me in a "hangry" mood. My interpretation was that I don't need any more copper! You could try experimenting with different doses of a copper supplement and observe how it makes you feel, although interpreting whether the sensations are a good or bad sign might be difficult.
My current opinion is that it is probably very difficult to become copper deficient with Vitamin A toxicity. You are probably much more likely to run into zinc deficiency, which would theoretically result in copper overload rather than deficiency. However, Vitamin A toxicity may predispose you to functional copper problems that manifest as deficiency symptoms.
@daniil
I think what @orion is suggesting is that you may not be able to get your copper levels up to normal no matter how much copper you eat, because that copper is being sequestered in the liver due to other imbalances like Vitamin A toxicity. If your body is storing a bunch of copper in the liver without using it, then eating more copper is just adding to a hidden overload that is going to cause more problems.
I've been eating mostly ruminant muscle meat and fat for almost a year, and I became concerned that I might be running into a copper deficit from getting so much zinc. I have been eating heart on occasion but thought it might not supply enough copper (BTW I find that heart tastes rich and somewhat sweet, no bitterness whatsoever unlike liver...not sure why it tastes bitter to you, but it might be your body telling you not to eat more copper?). So I tried supplementing small amounts of copper bisglycinate (no more than the RDA) at meals and feel that it made me kind of jittery with hypoglycemic sensations and put me in a "hangry" mood. My interpretation was that I don't need any more copper! You could try experimenting with different doses of a copper supplement and observe how it makes you feel, although interpreting whether the sensations are a good or bad sign might be difficult.
My current opinion is that it is probably very difficult to become copper deficient with Vitamin A toxicity. You are probably much more likely to run into zinc deficiency, which would theoretically result in copper overload rather than deficiency. However, Vitamin A toxicity may predispose you to functional copper problems that manifest as deficiency symptoms.
Quote from
Даниил on June 29, 2021, 3:19 pm
@daniil
I think what @orion is suggesting is that you may not be able to get your copper levels up to normal no matter how much copper you eat, because that copper is being sequestered in the liver due to other imbalances like Vitamin A toxicity. If your body is storing a bunch of copper in the liver without using it, then eating more copper is just adding to a hidden overload that is going to cause more problems.
I've been eating mostly ruminant muscle meat and fat for almost a year, and I became concerned that I might be running into a copper deficit from getting so much zinc. I have been eating heart on occasion but thought it might not supply enough copper (BTW I find that heart tastes rich and somewhat sweet, no bitterness whatsoever unlike liver...not sure why it tastes bitter to you, but it might be your body telling you not to eat more copper?). So I tried supplementing small amounts of copper bisglycinate (no more than the RDA) at meals and feel that it made me kind of jittery with hypoglycemic sensations and put me in a "hangry" mood. My interpretation was that I don't need any more copper! You could try experimenting with different doses of a copper supplement and observe how it makes you feel, although interpreting whether the sensations are a good or bad sign might be difficult.
My current opinion is that it is probably very difficult to become copper deficient with Vitamin A toxicity. You are probably much more likely to run into zinc deficiency, which would theoretically result in copper overload rather than deficiency. However, Vitamin A toxicity may predispose you to functional copper problems that manifest as deficiency symptoms.
Hmm, I had a similar reaction to vitamin B1 supplements, namely increased hunger and nervousness. But I took it as a sign that I was low on B1, which makes my body use glucose better and causes symptoms of hypoglycemia.
I agree that vitamin A can interfere with copper metabolism, but copper is needed to remove vitamin A from the liver. So I don't think it is a good idea to get little copper on VA detox
@daniil
I think what @orion is suggesting is that you may not be able to get your copper levels up to normal no matter how much copper you eat, because that copper is being sequestered in the liver due to other imbalances like Vitamin A toxicity. If your body is storing a bunch of copper in the liver without using it, then eating more copper is just adding to a hidden overload that is going to cause more problems.
I've been eating mostly ruminant muscle meat and fat for almost a year, and I became concerned that I might be running into a copper deficit from getting so much zinc. I have been eating heart on occasion but thought it might not supply enough copper (BTW I find that heart tastes rich and somewhat sweet, no bitterness whatsoever unlike liver...not sure why it tastes bitter to you, but it might be your body telling you not to eat more copper?). So I tried supplementing small amounts of copper bisglycinate (no more than the RDA) at meals and feel that it made me kind of jittery with hypoglycemic sensations and put me in a "hangry" mood. My interpretation was that I don't need any more copper! You could try experimenting with different doses of a copper supplement and observe how it makes you feel, although interpreting whether the sensations are a good or bad sign might be difficult.
My current opinion is that it is probably very difficult to become copper deficient with Vitamin A toxicity. You are probably much more likely to run into zinc deficiency, which would theoretically result in copper overload rather than deficiency. However, Vitamin A toxicity may predispose you to functional copper problems that manifest as deficiency symptoms.
Hmm, I had a similar reaction to vitamin B1 supplements, namely increased hunger and nervousness. But I took it as a sign that I was low on B1, which makes my body use glucose better and causes symptoms of hypoglycemia.
I agree that vitamin A can interfere with copper metabolism, but copper is needed to remove vitamin A from the liver. So I don't think it is a good idea to get little copper on VA detox
@daniil
Interesting about the reaction to B1, I've had something similar. Compared to copper supplements, B1 seems to make me more tired and not so much jittery...more like I can't concentrate from lack of oxygen to the brain and want to take a nap...but both of them seem to zap my energy levels and make me feel incapable of exercise. I've fought through the sensation many times when going biking or hiking, and it eventually wears off, but I don't like it at all. I tried different doses and types of B1 for months and kept getting the same feeling to some extent. I eventually decided I probably was not deficient after supplementing it for months while being on a B1-sparing diet for most of a year (moderately-high fat, high meat, low carb).
I've also wondered if the high doses from B1 supplements act as an antioxidant and actually slow down the clearance of Vitamin A, based on an apparent setback in my own progress while taking B1, but my problems may have stemmed from incidentally eating more grain-finished beef during the same time period (I've been suspecting that PUFAs are playing a considerable role in detox problems).
@daniil
Interesting about the reaction to B1, I've had something similar. Compared to copper supplements, B1 seems to make me more tired and not so much jittery...more like I can't concentrate from lack of oxygen to the brain and want to take a nap...but both of them seem to zap my energy levels and make me feel incapable of exercise. I've fought through the sensation many times when going biking or hiking, and it eventually wears off, but I don't like it at all. I tried different doses and types of B1 for months and kept getting the same feeling to some extent. I eventually decided I probably was not deficient after supplementing it for months while being on a B1-sparing diet for most of a year (moderately-high fat, high meat, low carb).
I've also wondered if the high doses from B1 supplements act as an antioxidant and actually slow down the clearance of Vitamin A, based on an apparent setback in my own progress while taking B1, but my problems may have stemmed from incidentally eating more grain-finished beef during the same time period (I've been suspecting that PUFAs are playing a considerable role in detox problems).
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I've also wondered if the high doses from B1 supplements act as an antioxidant and actually slow down the clearance of Vitamin A
This could be true, also other antioxidants could play the role as the next villain(like overdosing vit E and C).
Also it seems like all vitamins are anti metabolic(slow down metabolism).
I've also wondered if the high doses from B1 supplements act as an antioxidant and actually slow down the clearance of Vitamin A
This could be true, also other antioxidants could play the role as the next villain(like overdosing vit E and C).
Also it seems like all vitamins are anti metabolic(slow down metabolism).
Quote from
Jiří on June 30, 2021, 8:38 am
@daniil the bad joke about copper is that in copper toxicity you will get copper deficiency symptoms. Because it's not about copper intake. 1mg is plenty and everyone has 1mg of copper in the diet.. It's about make that copper usable by transport protein ceruloplasmin. I has copper deficiency symptoms and low copper in serum for years. But when my minerals were more balanced after avoiding high copper foods, taking things like molybdenum, chromium, selenium, active B complex, vit C more amino acids from whey protein etc.. I started dumping copper. My serum copper was crazy high.. I really recommend hair tissue mineral analysis from ARL lab for example, take what they recommend and after 3-4 months retest.. Blood test is also very helpful for copper. You need to test copper and ceruloplasmin at the same time. So you can see how much copper is free(toxic) and how much is usable in ceruloplasmin.. Btw to answer your question I like buckwheat for copper. It's also very high in magnesium.. I sometimes take to much molybdenum, vit C etc. so my histamine goes really high and when I eat some buckwheat it lowers it really well.. 100g of buckwheat has 1mg of copper. I like roasted buckwheat. It has nice nutty taste.
@daniil the bad joke about copper is that in copper toxicity you will get copper deficiency symptoms. Because it's not about copper intake. 1mg is plenty and everyone has 1mg of copper in the diet.. It's about make that copper usable by transport protein ceruloplasmin. I has copper deficiency symptoms and low copper in serum for years. But when my minerals were more balanced after avoiding high copper foods, taking things like molybdenum, chromium, selenium, active B complex, vit C more amino acids from whey protein etc.. I started dumping copper. My serum copper was crazy high.. I really recommend hair tissue mineral analysis from ARL lab for example, take what they recommend and after 3-4 months retest.. Blood test is also very helpful for copper. You need to test copper and ceruloplasmin at the same time. So you can see how much copper is free(toxic) and how much is usable in ceruloplasmin.. Btw to answer your question I like buckwheat for copper. It's also very high in magnesium.. I sometimes take to much molybdenum, vit C etc. so my histamine goes really high and when I eat some buckwheat it lowers it really well.. 100g of buckwheat has 1mg of copper. I like roasted buckwheat. It has nice nutty taste.
@jiri you probably stimulated immune system with whey proteins and B-vits, in turn its requirements for free(unbound) copper spiked and you've started to get high copper serum levels as a result (not necessary a bad thing)
btw true copper deficiency(total depletion) equals heavy anemia(low hemoglobin), as with some other vits like C
and masking symptoms with magnesium is not productive - it's like making Y steps forward and X steps then back, where X could be > than Y ;(
@jiri you probably stimulated immune system with whey proteins and B-vits, in turn its requirements for free(unbound) copper spiked and you've started to get high copper serum levels as a result (not necessary a bad thing)
btw true copper deficiency(total depletion) equals heavy anemia(low hemoglobin), as with some other vits like C
and masking symptoms with magnesium is not productive - it's like making Y steps forward and X steps then back, where X could be > than Y ;(
Quote from
Jiří on July 1, 2021, 9:14 am
@jiri you probably stimulated immune system with whey proteins and B-vits, in turn its requirements for free(unbound) copper spiked and you've started to get high copper serum levels as a result (not necessary a bad thing)
btw true copper deficiency(total depletion) equals heavy anemia(low hemoglobin), as with some other vits like C
and masking symptoms with magnesium is not productive - it's like making Y steps forward and X steps then back, where X could be > than Y ;(
high free copper in serum is not a bad thing? Are you kidding me? I experienced INSANE oxidative stress(white hair, crazy vascular damage to my veins, crazy collagen loss in my skin, spine degeneration etc..). It's funny how you see immune system everywhere. You should do more reading about copper metabolism.. My case is pretty simple. Classic copper toxicity by high estradiol due to taking steroids without antiestrogens.. Than I become also vit A toxic due to stupid diet changes influenced by Ray Peat, Robbins etc.. What doesn't help in all this is when you grow up deficient basically in all minerals and toxic in mercury. Not to mention that I haven o sense of smell and I had delayed puberty. So it looks like I have Kallman syndrome or how it's called. The only positive in this is that I don't have micro penis LOL.. It's funny but I think it was a good thing when I started taking steroids when I was 20yo. I think it helped develop my body. It's crazy I am 34 yo but I look 20 maybe 25yo.. My facial hair started grow more when I was like 28 LOL.. It's simply about minerals. They are running the show. Without minerals there are no hormones without hormones your body is a mess.. It's cool to look back and know why everything happened that way.. I need to keep doing hair tests and balance my body as much as possible. Detox what is in toxic amount in me and replenish what is deficient.. It's crazy to see changes in 34 yo dude how he gets more masculine etc.. by balancing minerals=hormones..
@jiri you probably stimulated immune system with whey proteins and B-vits, in turn its requirements for free(unbound) copper spiked and you've started to get high copper serum levels as a result (not necessary a bad thing)
btw true copper deficiency(total depletion) equals heavy anemia(low hemoglobin), as with some other vits like C
and masking symptoms with magnesium is not productive - it's like making Y steps forward and X steps then back, where X could be > than Y ;(
high free copper in serum is not a bad thing? Are you kidding me? I experienced INSANE oxidative stress(white hair, crazy vascular damage to my veins, crazy collagen loss in my skin, spine degeneration etc..). It's funny how you see immune system everywhere. You should do more reading about copper metabolism.. My case is pretty simple. Classic copper toxicity by high estradiol due to taking steroids without antiestrogens.. Than I become also vit A toxic due to stupid diet changes influenced by Ray Peat, Robbins etc.. What doesn't help in all this is when you grow up deficient basically in all minerals and toxic in mercury. Not to mention that I haven o sense of smell and I had delayed puberty. So it looks like I have Kallman syndrome or how it's called. The only positive in this is that I don't have micro penis LOL.. It's funny but I think it was a good thing when I started taking steroids when I was 20yo. I think it helped develop my body. It's crazy I am 34 yo but I look 20 maybe 25yo.. My facial hair started grow more when I was like 28 LOL.. It's simply about minerals. They are running the show. Without minerals there are no hormones without hormones your body is a mess.. It's cool to look back and know why everything happened that way.. I need to keep doing hair tests and balance my body as much as possible. Detox what is in toxic amount in me and replenish what is deficient.. It's crazy to see changes in 34 yo dude how he gets more masculine etc.. by balancing minerals=hormones..
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