I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Please
Login to create posts and topics.
Saturated Fat
Quote from
Judy on December 28, 2021, 12:58 pm
Which is better, plant fiber or saturated fat? Sounds like an easy question and it is, if you understand the connection.
https://www.carbwarscookbooks.com/what-does-a-400-pound-gorilla-eat/
Which is better, plant fiber or saturated fat? Sounds like an easy question and it is, if you understand the connection.
WHAT DOES A 400 POUND GORILLA EAT?
I've wondered if the liver and bile response to SCFAs from fiber fermentation is different from ingested saturated fats in a person with Vitamin A toxicity. Not that our human guts produce all that many SCFAs from fiber, but I've always thought it was funny how some people drain the drippings from their meat in an attempt to avoid the fat, while also eating beans or some other fiber at every meal that becomes SCFAs.
BTW, if anyone here is draining the drippings, I hope you realize you're probably losing a bunch of nutrients along with the fat. I cook my meat without salt, but the drippings always taste really salty, which means there are a significant amount of minerals leaching into the drippings, and probably vitamins as well.
I've wondered if the liver and bile response to SCFAs from fiber fermentation is different from ingested saturated fats in a person with Vitamin A toxicity. Not that our human guts produce all that many SCFAs from fiber, but I've always thought it was funny how some people drain the drippings from their meat in an attempt to avoid the fat, while also eating beans or some other fiber at every meal that becomes SCFAs.
BTW, if anyone here is draining the drippings, I hope you realize you're probably losing a bunch of nutrients along with the fat. I cook my meat without salt, but the drippings always taste really salty, which means there are a significant amount of minerals leaching into the drippings, and probably vitamins as well.
Judy has reacted to this post.
Quote from
lil chick on December 29, 2021, 7:37 am
Yes it does seem illogical. I'm going to stop. Drippings are also the basis of gourmet eating.
Yes it does seem illogical. I'm going to stop. Drippings are also the basis of gourmet eating.
Judy, Ourania and Retinoicon have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Moebius on December 29, 2021, 11:11 am
Rice absorbs beef drippings REALLY nicely. Love the flavor.
Rice absorbs beef drippings REALLY nicely. Love the flavor.
Beata has reacted to this post.
Quote from
tim on January 25, 2022, 11:59 am
No amount of conviction or compassion can change one into the other, but ultimately, all wild mammals, both herbivores and carnivores, get about 60- to 70% of their calories from saturated fat.
@judy
Carnivores don't like fat and will avoid it when feeding, their energy source is mostly glucose via gluconeogenesis. Humans prefer glucose as our main energy source too, obtaining it from starch is a lot more efficient (and ethical) than from meat. Fulfilling most of our energy needs from sugar (honey, fruit), starch (legumes, grains, tubers) and animal fat and most of our protein needs from meat and fish is the true apex mammal diet, it is far more efficient than the diet of a carnivore.
No amount of conviction or compassion can change one into the other, but ultimately, all wild mammals, both herbivores and carnivores, get about 60- to 70% of their calories from saturated fat.
@judy
Carnivores don't like fat and will avoid it when feeding, their energy source is mostly glucose via gluconeogenesis. Humans prefer glucose as our main energy source too, obtaining it from starch is a lot more efficient (and ethical) than from meat. Fulfilling most of our energy needs from sugar (honey, fruit), starch (legumes, grains, tubers) and animal fat and most of our protein needs from meat and fish is the true apex mammal diet, it is far more efficient than the diet of a carnivore.
Max has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Judy on January 25, 2022, 12:22 pm
Reply to Tim: The reason many believe that glucose is the body's "preferred" fuel is because it is burned first. The real reason it is burned first is because the body needs to get rid of it as quickly as possible. If excess sugar hangs around it attaches to blood cells and renders them useless. Glycated blood cells is what doctors count (A1c) to diagnose diabetes and to see how well a person has controlled the condition over the past 3 months. Having high glucose triggers the release of more insulin, the fat storage hormone, and increases hunger.
Ketones, formed when fat breaks down, is actually the preferred fuel for the brain. Ketones can only be burned for energy or excreted; once the fat is broken down to ketones, it can never be reassembled and stored as body fat.
As to the ethics: there are good sources of saturated fat from plants, coconut for example. However, a healthful diet for humans was determined eons ago--we didn't get to vote.
Reply to Tim: The reason many believe that glucose is the body's "preferred" fuel is because it is burned first. The real reason it is burned first is because the body needs to get rid of it as quickly as possible. If excess sugar hangs around it attaches to blood cells and renders them useless. Glycated blood cells is what doctors count (A1c) to diagnose diabetes and to see how well a person has controlled the condition over the past 3 months. Having high glucose triggers the release of more insulin, the fat storage hormone, and increases hunger.
Ketones, formed when fat breaks down, is actually the preferred fuel for the brain. Ketones can only be burned for energy or excreted; once the fat is broken down to ketones, it can never be reassembled and stored as body fat.
As to the ethics: there are good sources of saturated fat from plants, coconut for example. However, a healthful diet for humans was determined eons ago--we didn't get to vote.
Retinoicon and Carnivore have reacted to this post.
@tim-2
In addition to what @judy said, where did you get the idea that carnivores avoid fat?!
Survival of every living organism depends on energy, which is surely the most important limited resource for heterotrophs on this planet. Are you really suggesting that evolution favored an approach to acquiring energy through the consumption of other animals - which always contain some amount of fat, the most energy dense tissue on the body - and yet the animals that evolved such a dietary approach actively avoid the best source of energy on their prey?
There is a reason why virtually every hare carcass I found in my master's research was missing its head...the brain and eyes contain fat that is often extremely scarce on the rest of the body, and predators know that. There were plenty of times that I found an otherwise intact carcass that was missing its head, with the body cached for later consumption. As far as I know, the head is the first thing consumed by horned owls (and probably any owl who can swallow the head whole).
@tim-2
In addition to what @judy said, where did you get the idea that carnivores avoid fat?!
Survival of every living organism depends on energy, which is surely the most important limited resource for heterotrophs on this planet. Are you really suggesting that evolution favored an approach to acquiring energy through the consumption of other animals - which always contain some amount of fat, the most energy dense tissue on the body - and yet the animals that evolved such a dietary approach actively avoid the best source of energy on their prey?
There is a reason why virtually every hare carcass I found in my master's research was missing its head...the brain and eyes contain fat that is often extremely scarce on the rest of the body, and predators know that. There were plenty of times that I found an otherwise intact carcass that was missing its head, with the body cached for later consumption. As far as I know, the head is the first thing consumed by horned owls (and probably any owl who can swallow the head whole).
Judy, Retinoicon and Carnivore have reacted to this post.
Quote from
tim on January 25, 2022, 1:06 pm
@judy
It's the preferred fuel for many cells because it's the preferred fuel for many cells. Once glucose from a meal has been stored in glycogen cells will continue to use it. Some cells prefer fat or ketones. After a meal the body works to remove both fat and glucose from the blood ASAP.
Ketosis is a starvation state. Even in ketosis some brain cells use glucose. It's illogical to conclude that the body prefers ketosis when it only enters ketosis once glycogen reserves are becoming depleted. If it prefered ketosis it would enter ketosis much sooner and humans would prefer to eat carnivorously and avoid starch.
I was referring to the ethics of obtaining glucose from protein which is what the body of a low carber is doing, nothing to do with fat.
@judy
It's the preferred fuel for many cells because it's the preferred fuel for many cells. Once glucose from a meal has been stored in glycogen cells will continue to use it. Some cells prefer fat or ketones. After a meal the body works to remove both fat and glucose from the blood ASAP.
Ketosis is a starvation state. Even in ketosis some brain cells use glucose. It's illogical to conclude that the body prefers ketosis when it only enters ketosis once glycogen reserves are becoming depleted. If it prefered ketosis it would enter ketosis much sooner and humans would prefer to eat carnivorously and avoid starch.
I was referring to the ethics of obtaining glucose from protein which is what the body of a low carber is doing, nothing to do with fat.
Quote from
salt on January 25, 2022, 5:11 pm
Ketones is the preferred fuel, cells will preferentially burn ketones, then sugar, then fat. However ketosis is definitely not the preferred state.
Anyways, freshly killed animals will have plenty of glycogen in their muscles so you would probably get knocked out of ketosis if you killed an animal and then ate it straight afterwards.
Ketones is the preferred fuel, cells will preferentially burn ketones, then sugar, then fat. However ketosis is definitely not the preferred state.
Anyways, freshly killed animals will have plenty of glycogen in their muscles so you would probably get knocked out of ketosis if you killed an animal and then ate it straight afterwards.
Quote from
Judy on January 25, 2022, 5:43 pm
We are equipped for survival. We eat carbs when they are available because it provokes insulin, which puts it into storage in the fat cells where it can be used when the carbs (fruit and plant foods) are gone. The body tries hard to protect its precious fat stores because that is its emergency stash, therefore the carbs get burned until they are gone and then it switches to burning fat. We now live in an endless summer with abundant food and we never need to use up our reserve energy. Clearly a recipe for obesity. Ketones from saturated fat gives us a way to game the system by satisfying our hunger without making us fat.
Salt: why do you think ketosis is not a preferred state? It takes a few more calories to use gluconeogenesis to make the small amount of necessary glucose, but when has burning a few more calories ever been a negative?
We are equipped for survival. We eat carbs when they are available because it provokes insulin, which puts it into storage in the fat cells where it can be used when the carbs (fruit and plant foods) are gone. The body tries hard to protect its precious fat stores because that is its emergency stash, therefore the carbs get burned until they are gone and then it switches to burning fat. We now live in an endless summer with abundant food and we never need to use up our reserve energy. Clearly a recipe for obesity. Ketones from saturated fat gives us a way to game the system by satisfying our hunger without making us fat.
Salt: why do you think ketosis is not a preferred state? It takes a few more calories to use gluconeogenesis to make the small amount of necessary glucose, but when has burning a few more calories ever been a negative?
Retinoicon has reacted to this post.
