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Sloughing skin inside of cheeks
Has anybody experienced sloughing skin on the insides of their cheeks with any frequency?
This is something that used to happen to me years ago on occasion, but for some reason I never thought much about it back then, just scraped it off with my fingernail and went about my routine. I've started to have it happen again recently and I'm not sure why it's started all of a sudden, but given all the strange skin things I've experienced on a low Vitamin A diet, I naturally started wondering if this is something that other people have experienced here.
When you do an online search, the most common claims are that it is the result of trauma (e.g. biting your cheeks) or chemical insult (e.g. SLS from toothpaste). I'm almost positive mine is not from biting my cheeks while sleeping because it usually shows up on both sides of the mouth simultaneously, which seems unlikely to happen from biting. I stopped using toothpaste with SLS a long time ago, and I can't think of anything else I'm putting in my mouth that would cause a reaction like that. Retinoic acid leaking out of the tissues seems to be the most likely candidate in my case, particularly considering the gum recession and ongoing sore sensation on the roof of my mouth I've experienced for a long time now. If it is from Vitamin A coming out of the tissues, why does it appear in such a seemingly random pattern...one day it's dry toes, the next it's dry eyes, and then sloughing cheeks for only a day before it stops there?
This one I havent experienced (yet). But since going on the Vitamin A detox I have experienced all kind of weird things inside my mouth:
- Little bubbles that I could pop open. (Grant had this as well I think)
- Slight gum recession and slight movement of some teeth
- Yellowing of the teeth
At least for me these things get worse the more meat I eat, and they get fixed if I eat less meat (like 500g a week, 2 times a week).
I know your theory is that meat speeds up the detox, but I get great results on less meat as well, so I am not sure, if a lot of meat could even be harmful. Be it because it speeds up the detox too much or it actually unbalances the body, we will never know.
I've gotten tiny (maybe 1-3 mm wide) clear bubbles inside my mouth as well. Haven't had them in a long time now, but around the time I was cutting oxalates and going low Vitamin A I was getting them not infrequently. Usually just one appeared at a time. They tended to appear in the exact same place every time, often at the entrance to my throat. They would pop up out of nowhere and then deflate and disappear without any sign of being there after 30-60 minutes. It seemed like it always happened after I ate something acidic. I was first getting them when drinking long-fermented milk kefir that was really strong, but then I got them from some other things as well (berries I think?).
Probably completely unrelated, but I was also getting even tinier clear bubbles on my hands/fingers that would last for a long time. They were nearly imperceptible, but definitely there. The closest medical description I could find was a water blister. Those seem to have disappeared at some point and never come back.
It's amazing how many almost unbelievable symptoms I've gone through in the past few years. Most medical practitioners would think I was a hypochondriac if I described everything I've experienced. There a guy on the LYL site who claimed he lost a chunk of his tongue overnight...I thought that was most likely impossible without having an actual wound left behind, which he didn't claim, and I still can't fathom how that would work, but after all I've experienced there's a part of me that says I can't discount the possibility that it really happened!
@wavygravygadzooks are you thinking your symptoms are to do with the toxicity of excess vA? Or do you think they are symptoms caused by another deficiency/toxicity caused by the fast detox of vA?
I’m currently focusing on the negative effects that provoking a fast detox can have on the body? What does it do? I entirely think that excess vA needs removing and I’ve had many benefits from doing so, but at what cost? For some people the provoking of a fast detox is too much for the body imo and a re-poisoning occurs due to sluggish detox pathways and this results in more toxicity and subsequent nutrient depletion. The idea of choline deficiency ticks a lot of boxes and I suspect is true for me. Also the idea of triggering secondary porphyria rings true for me and once triggered results in over sensitivity to so many things. A re-poisoning would worsen the cell danger response and autonomic nervous system dysfunction, which I also think is affecting me.
These are the areas of current interest to me. I have no doubt that having a burden of excess vA in the body is very bad for health. Removing my excess burden of vA has got rid of numerous symptoms. However, getting it out of safe storage and out of the body can cause issues if the system for getting rid of it is sluggish and gets overwhelmed. Like throwing all the stuff from attic storage around the house instead of taking it to the tip. Collateral damage. In my case the collateral damage has been developing a seizure disorder. More serious than my initial vA toxicity symptoms.
I had considered that my symptoms could be due to nutrient deficiencies, which led me to supplementing just about everything I could possibly think of that would be related. Yet none of those supplements offered any relief, and many of them seemed to make my symptoms worse. Based on the long-term experiences of others on a carnivore diet, I am led to the conclusion that I am not dealing with nutrient deficiencies. In addition, some of my symptoms came on rather suddenly after stopping Vitamin A intake, and I had been eating extremely nutrient dense foods right up until then (liver, kidney, eggs, butter, milk kefir, in addition to plenty of meat), so it really doesn't make much sense that I would have run into nutrient deficiencies so quickly.
Thus, my conclusion has been that, at least in my case, Vitamin A coming out of peripheral storage (not the liver) inherently causes damage on the way out, possibly because it requires oxidation from retinol to its more caustic forms, retinaldehyde and retinoic acid. I definitely think you can get rid of Vitamin A stored in the liver without symptoms, but it seems to me that any Vitamin A stored outside the liver is going to cause some kind of problems on its way out of those storage sites.
What do you guys think about using butter to slow down vitamin A detox. Butter has quite a bit of vitamin A.
It seems like going too low in it could cause some nasty detox things for some. So if the body starts to detox vitamin A even if we get some of it in our food, wouldnt it be intelligent to not go too low for the start? I like butter so much. Would love if it would be a good idea to use it liberally if that is the only vitamin A source really. If one does not get gallbladder issues from it. I used to, but now I dont get any issues at all even if I eat butter straight. So cool.
I’ve had this a lot but peeling of skin on the roof of my mouth and also spitting out blood when it was really bad.
Would happen 1 months into the detox when I ate high carotenoids like carrots or high antioxidant veg. I’ve also had it happen when I ate glyphosate oats. It will literally happen while I’m eating the food, and will have dripping nose too.
Imo it’s retinoic acid leaking out into the gums.
Luckily I’ve been making good progress so I don’t get it much anymore in the last month.
Wow, bleeding? That sucks. I've never had bleeding, just gum recession and a constant sore sensation on the roof of the mouth that feels like ulcerations, like you would get from a burn from eating hot food, but nothing is visible on the surface (my dentists have never seen anything either).