I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Thiamine deficiency symptoms .
Hello all 🙂
Has anyone here gone though Thiamine deficiency on a diet where carbs are primarily from white rice . I think I am currently going though it after eating white rice for about 6 months or more . I think thats more than enough to get Thiamine deficiency, plus I used to eat a lot of rice , about 300gm or sometimes 400gm a day . if any one has experienced it , could you please enlist your symptoms here so that I can compare to mine .
Moverover , Somewhere I read Garrett Smith mentioning that B2 is something I should be worried about as well or did he meant it on a diet devoid of beef and chicken ? , but I dont know . My diet has been full of Beef , chicken and eggs . I think beef has enough of b2 ?
I was doing so great on meat only and rice diet ( white rice was the culprit 🙁 ) for months , Never felt so good in my life , energetic and without vitamin A detox symptoms . and suddenly since past 2 weeks some weird unprecedented symptoms started appearing . Following are the symptoms I have been experiencing since past 2 weeks
1 : Joint pain on legs
2 : Extreme fatigue
3 : Insomnia
4 : Forget fullness
Well on white rice and meat diet without any supplements you will deplete much more micronutrients not just thiamine. Where are your main macro minerals- electrolytes like potassium, magnesium, calcium? Minerals like this are needed in much bigger amounts than B1 for example... So I think it would be mix of deficiencies not just one vitamin... You can eat low vit A diet ok. So Common sense is tellingm e going on some nutrition calculator like nutrition data or cronometer and type in diet that is low in vit A, but has at least RDA for all micronutrients at the same time.. I really don't understand how people think that this type of diet can work? Yes bodybuilders are living on rice and meat, but they at least take supplements for all other micronutrients...
I struggle with thiamine deficiency and need to supplement even though I am getting 100 % RDA in my diet. One of the first things I notice is the feeling that my food is taking longer to digest. It feels heavy in my stomach and I get a feeling that I want to burp but it is acid / vomit like. (sorry if too much info). In time this will progress to a lack of appetite.
I do get increased fatigue but that is not so noticable since I have severe CFS anyway. I do notice a lack of motivation. I find it harder to make myself do things both physically and mentally. I start saying "I can't" which I think is what beriberi literally means. I totally understand how it got that name.
These symptoms can be quite subtle at first and they don't always register with me. If I continue without supplementing I get increasing feelings of overwhelm. Then my brain function goes and I can't think straight. I can't remember things or find the right words. I actually thought I was getting dementia the first time it happened. It has a different quality to fatigue induced brain fog for me. I also notice a feeling of air hunger when lying down.
Sometimes I seem to yawn excessively particularly when going to bed but that is not so clear cut. I'm not sure if it is when I am low in thiamine or when I supplement. I feel like I'm going to pop my jaw and my eyes are streaming.
For many months I just supplemented thiamine and then I started getting symptoms of deficiency again which turned out to be lack of B2. I think I get enough B2 in my diet for normal dietary vitamins but when supplementing extra B's, I need to take some B2 alongside them.
Even though I am now eating loads of beans (getting on for 3 cups a day) and don't eat white rice (hurts my gut), I still get thiamine deficiency. I use potatoes for carbs and a small amount of oats.
Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2020, 2:03 amWell on white rice and meat diet without any supplements you will deplete much more micronutrients not just thiamine. Where are your main macro minerals- electrolytes like potassium, magnesium, calcium? Minerals like this are needed in much bigger amounts than B1 for example... So I think it would be mix of deficiencies not just one vitamin... You can eat low vit A diet ok. So Common sense is tellingm e going on some nutrition calculator like nutrition data or cronometer and type in diet that is low in vit A, but has at least RDA for all micronutrients at the same time.. I really don't understand how people think that this type of diet can work? Yes bodybuilders are living on rice and meat, but they at least take supplements for all other micronutrients...
Doesn't meat have essentially every nutrient known to man?
Quote from Diogenes on March 24, 2020, 4:55 amQuote from Jiří on March 24, 2020, 2:03 amWell on white rice and meat diet without any supplements you will deplete much more micronutrients not just thiamine. Where are your main macro minerals- electrolytes like potassium, magnesium, calcium? Minerals like this are needed in much bigger amounts than B1 for example... So I think it would be mix of deficiencies not just one vitamin... You can eat low vit A diet ok. So Common sense is tellingm e going on some nutrition calculator like nutrition data or cronometer and type in diet that is low in vit A, but has at least RDA for all micronutrients at the same time.. I really don't understand how people think that this type of diet can work? Yes bodybuilders are living on rice and meat, but they at least take supplements for all other micronutrients...
Doesn't meat have essentially every nutrient known to man?
If we talking about muscle meat only like red meat, chicken, turkey breast etc.. It is far from complete nutrition.. Just go on cronometer and type in for example just 1kg of chicken breast.. It is basically just protein, some specific vitamins and minerals. Red meat has more micronutrients, but again. Have a lot of some micros like iron, zinc, B3,B12, but has no vit C, calcium, Copper, manganese, molybdenum, B1 etc. etc.. Simply eating only muscle meat you will create imbalances very fast. Toxicity and deficiency in specific micronutrients.. White rice is basically just source of calories/carbohydrates.. If there is single food that has almost everything that you need. I would say it is milk and potatoes. People were living on just potatoes during WWII for years...
alright, I agree
So could you please give us a diet plan which is sufficient in all nutrients , but at the same time doesn't interfere with our Vitamin A Detox journey ( no oxalates and no retinol/beta-coretene ) ?
Btw I last year I was eating only potatoes with brown rice , after a month I felt terrible sick and weak . While I agree meat is deficient in some micro nutrients , but red meat is the best diet I have found so far for somebody suffering from Vit A toxicity .
Regarding calcium , I am bit skeptical about it . While I wasnt on an all meat rice diet , I used to consume milk and yoghurt often , and my calcium levels never went above 9 , giving up on yoghurt and milk soon after following all meat diet spiked my calcium levels up to 10.1 ,
I believe with the inclusion of meat , nutrients are optimally absorbed well
Measuring calcium in serum is useless. You need to keep eye on PTH. If it is low. Your body is using calcium from the bones, because your dietary intake is probably low.. High PTH can be also due to low vit D3. I would do blood test for PTH, D3. So you know if you should take D3 and eat more calcium.. If you eat meats, rice, potatoes, some legumes, some low carotene fruits. You will cover basically all your micronutrients. The only problem can be with calcium, because by far the best source is dairy, which can be problematic and plant sources high in calcium are also high in antinutrients so bioavailability is very low.. So you can try supplements like calcium citrate or there is another good source of calcium and that is spring water that has high calcium content.. Calcium from spring water has very good bioavailability almost like dairy. You just need to find out brand that is high in it. It can be something like 200-300mg per L. So 2L will give you decent amount of calcium.. Spring water should have labels on it with mineral profile...
Alright everybody
here I am after a week or so , what I suspected of thiamine deficiency was indeed true or might have been deficiencies of few more macro nutrient or B vitamins like folate . For sure eating only white rice was creating issues ( with meat , but meat. is not the issue )
. Since past week I did the following and my symptoms have disappeared .
1 :Replaced white rice with 70% brown rice / 30 red rice . ( red rice taste nutty and yummy )
2 : added brown lentil ( soaked in water and ACV for 8 hours before pressure cooking )
3 : Took therapeutic dose of thiamine HCL ( 300 mg ) once
4 : Added cereal ( fortified with calcium , and b viatmins ) ( I know this wont be good for long run , will be giving up on this soon )
5 : took calcium tabs ( I suspected calcium deficiencies )
6 : Added 50 gms of sunflower seeds to my diet everyday
7 : Whole grain bread with eggs in morning
Though my symptoms like dry mouth , dry nose , skin flakes of the side of lips completely disappeared , and better sleep , insomnia was one of the symptoms , but lentil have given me semi-loose stools and intestinal cramps . Any suggestions ? Do I need to eat lentils everyday for folate and b1 ? how often do I need to eat them ?
@ggenereux2014 I know your diet is mostly beef and kidney beans and brown rice . What do you do for other vitamins and minerals like vitamin K, E, C , potassium and calcium ??
"Though my symptoms like dry mouth , dry nose , skin flakes of the side of lips completely disappeared "
This could be from B vit deficiency especially B2 or symptoms of high vitA in the blood(detox) and once you start eating more vit A from eggs etc.. The body stop pumping vit A from the liver to the blood so no more symptoms.. But I see this vit A detox as a marathon not a sprint. So it makes sense to have more balanced diet even if you have more vit A in it.. Btw be careful if those cereal are not fortified with vit A or with iron. You really don't wanna eat this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjY0Wj_pUKg