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This mad diet wheel
Quote from Jenny on May 28, 2021, 4:10 amYes! It’s a minefield working out what to do. I think different diets work for different people. If you process vA very well in the liver/bile and have good gut bacteria then I’m sure you can eat quite a lot of vA without problem. If you have a rich microbiome with plenty of bacteria that break down oxalates then you can probably eat plenty of oxalates without problem. Once it goes wrong people tend to get stuck in negative vicious cycles (this is how I see it) which unless identified are difficult to get out of.
Similar experience here. Low tolerance for oxalates and lower tolerance for vA. Beef, chicken, oatmeal, rice, apple, banana, peeled green kiwi along with charcoal and magnesium enough to prevent charcoal constipation worked wonders. Closer to Grant's boring prison / cowboy diet worked better. Fruit is tempting and easy to over eat.
Quote from ItsMe on August 8, 2025, 2:50 am@beata-2 Have you found relief and made progress by now? Trying to find relief from something as 'simple' as food is maddening, especially when food's supposed to be enjoyable yet energizing.
"On the carnivore (Paleo Ketogenic Diet) I was advised to eat the meat, offal and eggs (400g of beef liver per week) which after 14 months made me very unwell; surely because of an overload of vitamin A. "
Going by my own experience, it seems for me that beta carotene has the most destructive effect on me.(maybe bc it stays in the blood longer...possibly conversion to retinol problems?) I wondered why that was on a virtually carnivore diet and attributed it to the goat/sheep cheese/dairy I consumed daily...BUT I also loved fatty cuts of beef and used a lot of beef tallow. (Never tolerated eggs well). I also took a thyroid glandular supplement,which had some beef liver in it as well.
Beef fat and beef liver (as do egg yolks) contain a reasonable amount of beta carotene instead of pure retinol, so I still (unknowingly) was getting an amount of beta carotene. (Possibly why I didnt seem to notice much of an effect from the thyroid glandular. It was shrugged off that it mustve been bc its not standardized, but Ray Peat wrote that beta carotene acts as an unsarurated fat which can inhibit thyroid function. So, I was possibly holding myself back with that glandular while taking it to help my thyroid
) I wonder if my experience would've been different and/or less disastrous if I would've had lean beef and didn't cook with tallow,yet kept goat dairy in? (which is pure retinol).
This also makes me question if the VA toxic people on carnivore became toxic bc of eating high beta carotene foods....in other words conversion problems
(beef liver,egg yolks,fatty grassfed beef/tallow, cow dairy/butter/ghee).
12 years keto with months carnivore interspersed, all on Weston A Price here. Dairy and eggs with butter, whipping cream, yogurt. Beef with tallow and liver. Coconut oil and MCT oil. 8 to 12 cups cooked crucifers. Salads and seaweed. Fish and ikura. Low oxalates.
Tore me up until pain was unbearable. Could not walk nor sleep. Not sure how this n=1 figures into this survey of folk. I am confident I want zero carotenoids and zero retinoids for the rest of my life. Feel the same incentive to keep oxalates, B6 and copper as close to zero as i can as well.
Quote from ItsMe on August 9, 2025, 2:09 amQuote from Joe2 on August 8, 2025, 11:37 amQuote from Jenny on May 28, 2021, 4:10 amYes! It’s a minefield working out what to do. I think different diets work for different people. If you process vA very well in the liver/bile and have good gut bacteria then I’m sure you can eat quite a lot of vA without problem. If you have a rich microbiome with plenty of bacteria that break down oxalates then you can probably eat plenty of oxalates without problem. Once it goes wrong people tend to get stuck in negative vicious cycles (this is how I see it) which unless identified are difficult to get out of.
Similar experience here. Low tolerance for oxalates and lower tolerance for vA. Beef, chicken, oatmeal, rice, apple, banana, peeled green kiwi along with charcoal and magnesium enough to prevent charcoal constipation worked wonders. Closer to Grant's boring prison / cowboy diet worked better. Fruit is tempting and easy to over eat.
Oxalates and VA toxicity actually are related to eachother.
https://hormonesmatter.com/oxalate-a-potential-contributor-to-hypervitaminosis-a/
It makes sense to me, the faulty enzymatic process, bc I didn't have an overly high VA diet,yet it turned out to be catastrophic. There are more issues I feel I'm dealing with,which migth be bc of decreased enzymes (fructose/fructan/fodmap malabsorption).
The question is, is this bc of a possible fungi/candida infection which has considerably weakened and stagnated everything and possibly ethanol it has been cranking out...
Ironically when one cuts out the high-oxalate offenders,such as sweet potato and spinach/other leafy greens, they've also cut back on a lot of beta carotene/VA. It makes me wonder if the initial severe 'die-off' symptoms ,some experience on low VA diet, is (also) bc the bodies dumping oxalates.
It makes sense. It is all a cascade of events. Zinc and other nutrients get used up making the binding proteins needed to safely remove the toxins. That gives deficiencies in other metabolic processes zinc and the other nutrients are needed for. Which in turn makes it harder to get other toxins out. The old saw that "it can not get any worse" proves again to be a lie. It can always get worse. On top of that cascade, poison hurts sucks up those nutrients on the way in and then again on the way out. Gets us coming and going.
Reminds of that rodent study pharma scientists were trying to do on a new drug for gluten intolerance. Needed a cohort of rodents with gluten intolerance to treat with the drug to get drug approval. Jammed gluten into rodents to no avail. Tried all sorts of ways to induce gluten intolerance. Accidentally noticed that vA dosed rats became gluten intolerant.
Makes me wonder if most of our problems are just layers of poisons causing more and more things to be toxic to us. Like peeling onions getting the right toxin out at a slow enough rate to not cause more problems and yet fast enough to improve life.