I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Treating endometriosis, menorrhagia, hormonal imbalance in women with VA
Quote from hillcountry on December 6, 2019, 8:47 amQuote from bludicka on December 6, 2019, 8:27 amHow to take B12 - I did it in the past and it worked, Jarrow B12 methylcobalamin is good because it dissolves very slowly:
"Improper Usage – They take a sublingual tablet of active b12 and chew it or slurp it down quickly reducing absorbtionback to that same 1% and limited to binding capacity. With sublingual tablets absorbtion is proportionate to time in contact with tissues. I performed a series of absorbtion tests comparing sublingual absorbtion to injection via hypersensitive response and urine colorimetry. The sublingual b12s must be retained under the upper lip or tongue for 45 minutes to two hours for effectiveness with verified absorbtion ranging from 15% to 25% with urine colorimetry and by effect."
Great info, thanks for the snip on how to do the B-12.
Your link to phoenixrising from the other day had me in the B-2 weeds for most of a day (and night - big smile). It was surprising to learn that 25mg at a time is all the body can utilize, so multi-dosing over the day is the way to go if one is depleted. It's nice to know B-2 is stored, as opposed to thiamine. I still can't figure out, from either Dr. Lonsdale, Dr. Marrs, Brenda, Dog Person, et. al., what a proper multi-B supplement actually is. I have a bottle of Pure (brand) B complex and the amounts of each B vitamin, borders on ridiculously high-percentages of daily-values. If it's true that B-2 is the throttle, i.e. needed in the metabolism of the others, then it seems the companies formulating these combos would use that as a baseline. But, as Dr. Lonsdale keeps pointing out, the B's are not toxic, so experimentation (with guidance - i.e. the "paradox" phase) is advisable.
Do you take a combo B or just do them separately and dose to your own choice? Thanks again for the links, that's some dynamite information there.
I usually use the B12 patches and they do seem to work, albeit a bit slowly... when I've compared my before and after tests.
Quote from Orion on December 6, 2019, 8:06 amQuote from Audrey on December 6, 2019, 3:02 amThanks @puddleduck, I've started on b12 shots due to very low b12 (once again) and my period has returned! Yay
@audrey this info may be helpful for you, re B12/B1 getting it working via B2 and minerals(low dose):
This protocol should in theory boost the ADH and ALDH systems to better detox vitamin A/
It's weird how much I've been craving tuna, it's my biggest craving, maybe to do with selenium? For some reason the idea of supplementing with iodine scares me, though I have tried using iodised salt on this diet. Anyway, thanks for this info @Orion.
I take this B complex without folic acid and with lower dose of B6 - the most of b complex vitamins have very high dose of B6 (50-100 mg) and many people have poisoned themselves with B6 and the symptoms of B6 toxicity are really scary:
Albion is a manufacturer of L-selenomethionine and other amino acid chelates, and wholesales its products to dietary supplement manufacturers. With daily usage of L-selenomethionine as high as 1800 mcg over a period of several weeks and months, there is no evidence that fungal and staph infections are decreasing, no evidence that white blood cell counts or CD4 counts are increasing, and no evidence of other tangible benefits, except for a few published studies that indicate a small decline in mercury levels for a dose as low as 100 mcg daily.
In contrast, the use of Brazil Nuts, the world's richest natural source of selenium, or supplements made from high selenium mustard greens (Ecological Formulas or Bio-Active Selenium by Solaray) or broccoli as in "Activated Selenium" by Jarrow Formulas, we are getting reports of increasing WBC and CD4 counts, the disappearance of fungal and staph infections, greater energy and well being, and in one case reported in this issue, an end to chronic fatigue syndrome. Most of these results are occurring very rapidly - often within the first week of use."
food sourced molybdenum - I was taking this in the past from Biotics Research, now Solgar chelated molybdenum (I would never take various inorganic salts of molybdenum, mostly liquid forms "sodium molybdate", "ammonium molybdate"):
https://www.dcnutrition.com/product/mo-zyme-forte-water-soluble-molybdenum-100-tablets/
I take this organic chelated iodine 1/4 tablet daily or potassium iodide 150 mcg (I don't use iodised salt or processed foods with iodised salt):
https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Prolamine-Iodine#.XeqksOj0laQ
the most comprehensive list of B12 and folate deficiency I have found:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/symptoms-by-deadlock-quartet-and-other-nutrients.27482/
I would add to this list potassium https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm because potassium is needed for folate activation - without enough potassium folate did not work.
I am using white rock salt 60%-70%+40%-30% potassium chloride. For extra potassium, potassium bicarbonate - only when I was folate deficient. Otherwise I'm trying to get potassium from foods - in low VA diet potatoes, coconut water, lima beans...
@bludicka - thank your very much for your comprehensive reply on the B's in particular, but also the caution on selenium. I compared the Thorne B complex label to the Pure B complex and they're virtually identical. I'll be following your recommendation on dose and frequency after doing a sort of challenge with higher dose thiamine to rule out deficiency. And might go for the real low-dose organic formula for awhile just to see. I noted at some study link you posted that thiamine is stored up to 2 to 3 weeks worth. I thought Dr. Lonsdale said it wasn't, but either way, I wonder how fast it can get depleted if the conditions are right, and especially in case Orion's hypothesis about it maybe being depleted in the creation of dehydrogenases is correct.
Do you have any comment on that or references to thiamine's involvement in VA metabolism, other than what it's doing in energy creation? Thanks again for all the links. You are an informational force-of-nature. I sure appreciate your sharing such detail.
@hillcountry I used to test individual b vitamins on an empty stomach and sublingual - and if I am deficient, I feel improvement sometimes immediately or within a few hours. If I don't feel anything, I only stay on preventive doses (sometimes there is a problem with synergistic nutrients and these shoud be replenished).
But it can be difficult to saturate B1 or other B vitamins, molybdenum if someone is still VA toxic and to feel the full benefit of these nutrients but they are important to support the detox (and for this purpose we do not need high doses but rather regular low doses)... I also think these vitamins, minerals are depleted in the detox process and VA toxicity itself blocks the function of these nutrients in the body. The similar problem was with mercury toxicity.... "Mercury substitutes itself for molybdenum rendering the enzyme sulphite oxidase(SO) useless. This is why molybdenum is one the important minerals to take while chelating..." And mercury chelation depleted a lot of nutrients - especially b vitamins, vitamin c, these are used to reduce the side-effects of chelation and oxidative damage caused by mercury. (e.g. There is a study about VA toxicity and scurvy symptoms and benefical effect of vitamin C against excess of VA...)
" Do you have any comment on that or references to thiamine's involvement in VA metabolism, other than what it's doing in energy creation?" - I don't know.
@bludicka Reasoning for this "I would never take various inorganic salts of molybdenum, mostly liquid forms "sodium molybdate", "ammonium molybdate""? Thanks, posting lots of good stuff. The one link I posted stated that these were the only molyb form that will bring B2 back online.
Quote from Karen on December 6, 2019, 8:51 amHi @puddleduck
Can you tell me where Gwyneth Olwyn (from the eating disorder institute mentioned above, for those who are wondering what I'm talking about) claimed to have medical training? I know on her website she never stated what her credentials were and never said she was a doctor. I believe as a patient advocate she did sometimes work in a medical setting (which I understand is not the same thing as having medical training necessarily). But I'm wondering where she specifically misrepresented herself.
Thanks!
Hello @karen,
It was on a forum called Calorie Count (caloriecount.about.com). About 13 years or so ago, Gwyneth Owlyn started posting over there under the name “Hedgren.” Unfortunately, the Calorie Count website was rebranded, and all of the forum archives were deleted. I was unable to recover them using the Wayback machine, but here is a post which references and links to them and another one referencing them (I found these through an internet search, there may be more).
She grew a large audience for her website through the Calorie Count boards. I wasn’t a member there, but I did see the posts where she claimed to be a physician (her vagueness about her education always seemed a bit odd to me, so I looked into it and that’s when I saw the posts). I just believed her, and figured she was being “principled” in not disclosing her credentials on her own website (that was rationalization on my part, because it doesn’t make sense).
But there is no evidence she has any medical training. Her LinkedIn page (search for Gwyneth O—she lives in British Columbia, Canada) shows that she has two Bachelor’s Degrees, one in Psychology and one in History, as well as training in Graphic Design. Until quite recently, she worked in marketing and advertising.
ETA: I forgot to say that also, in 2018 when she shut down the forums on her website (in response to criticism), she stated directly that she is not a doctor. I do have screenshots of that (I don’t want to post it online though, since what she wrote was in a private forum). But if you were involved in Your Eatopia/The Eating Disorder Institute and would like that information (or to know anything else about the situation), I would be willing to share that privately.
I only found out about this recently, and I feel bad about it because of the people she harmed.
Food sourced minerals or fully chelated are the best - because they are like food for the body and stay in the body for longer time and can be built in slowly. The best food source for molybdenum are legumes, one cup of lentils or white lima beans has 140-150 mcg (the problem can be phytic acid). Adzuki beans are very rich in molybdenum, one cup 336 mcg but unfortunately they are red and carotenoids problem. But mung beans are "green adzuki beans" and mung sprouts are almost white. Mung beans are very rich in molybdenum: https://slism.com/calorie/104071/
The same situation with selenium - inorganic liquid selenium "sodium selenite" - the body can use these forms of minerals to some extent vs. food sourced form "se-methylselenocysteine". "It is a naturally occurring seleno-amino acid that is synthesized by plants such as garlic, astragalus, onions, and broccoli. It cannot be synthesized by higher animals. Unlike selenomethionine, which is incorporated into proteins in place of methionine, SeMSC is not incorporated into any proteins, thereby being fully available for the synthesis of selenium-containing enzymes such as glutathione peroxidase. "As much as 80% of the total selenium" found in Allium species (onion, leek, garlic, ramps) Brassica species (broccoli, radish, Brussels sprouts, cabbage), and milk vetch (Astragalus species, Fabaceae) is present as Se-methylselenocysteine."
Or magnesium chloride flakes - these are good for magnesium baths or transdermal application but if you take this form of magnesium orally - it is a small molecule and does not stay in the body for long, it is rapidly eliminated by the kidneys. But I am drinking mineral magnesium water if I sweat too much to replace the electrolytes.
Inorganic forms of minerals are used in IV applications. Or our body uses some minerals as inorganic salt "sodium chloride".
Quote from puddleduck on December 6, 2019, 9:12 pmQuote from Karen on December 6, 2019, 8:51 amHi @puddleduck
Can you tell me where Gwyneth Olwyn (from the eating disorder institute mentioned above, for those who are wondering what I'm talking about) claimed to have medical training? I know on her website she never stated what her credentials were and never said she was a doctor. I believe as a patient advocate she did sometimes work in a medical setting (which I understand is not the same thing as having medical training necessarily). But I'm wondering where she specifically misrepresented herself.
Thanks!
Hello @karen,
It was on a forum called Calorie Count (caloriecount.about.com). About 13 years or so ago, Gwyneth Owlyn started posting over there under the name “Hedgren.” Unfortunately, the Calorie Count website was rebranded, and all of the forum archives were deleted. I was unable to recover them using the Wayback machine, but here is a post which references and links to them and another one referencing them (I found these through an internet search, there may be more).
She grew a large audience for her website through the Calorie Count boards. I wasn’t a member there, but I did see the posts where she claimed to be a physician (her vagueness about her education always seemed a bit odd to me, so I looked into it and that’s when I saw the posts). I just believed her, and figured she was being “principled” in not disclosing her credentials on her own website (that was rationalization on my part, because it doesn’t make sense).
But there is no evidence she has any medical training. Her LinkedIn page (search for Gwyneth O—she lives in British Columbia, Canada) shows that she has two Bachelor’s Degrees, one in Psychology and one in History, as well as training in Graphic Design. Until quite recently, she worked in marketing and advertising.
ETA: I forgot to say that also, in 2018 when she shut down the forums on her website (in response to criticism), she stated directly that she is not a doctor. I do have screenshots of that (I don’t want to post it online though, since what she wrote was in a private forum). But if you were involved in Your Eatopia/The Eating Disorder Institute and would like that information (or to know anything else about the situation), I would be willing to share that privately.
I only found out about this recently, and I feel bad about it because of the people she harmed.
Hi @puddleduck,
Thanks for taking the time to post all that info. I had heard of the controversy but I was not sure of all the specifics.
If Olwyn was actually Hedgren (still not sure there is definitive evidence of this), then it is certainly problematic if she told people she was a doctor.
I haven't read the whole thread you posted (skimmed through several pages), but it still isn't clear to me how she harmed people. I know some thought said the gave incorrect information on edema and insulin. And while she often said people should take a "wait and see" approach with symptoms, her site also encouraged people to be monitored by doctors/psychologists, etc.
It still seems to me that MinnieMaud is the best guideline for eating disorder recovery, even if Olwyn was wrong about certain aspects. Though I certainly understand if someone is uncomfortable with those guidelines because Olwyn (may have) misrepresented herself.