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Two Weeks In
Hello everyone! I am a semi-retired chiropractor, still fairly young. I just found other avenues to work that are more fit for the busy brain. Like many of you, I ran across Grant's books by happenstance and started reading. The nutrition industry is so full of marketing schemes and wackadoos that I had given up attempts to even give nutritional recommendations to patients, much less, take up a certain diet myself. Given the odd makeup of my industry, I've read and seen a lot of bullshit in my life. I've met other chiropractors who can talk to feet. I like to think that I have become fairly well versed in spotting nonsense and the various fallacies that can trip up a theory. In reading these books, I truly believe Grant is on to something. His objections to the early rat experiments are well founded and his subclinical vitamin A toxicity theory appears truly plausible. It gets the mind racing for ways to study the vA intake of anyone with a chronic auto-immune disease.
Anyway, my diet before this was pretty standard food pyramid stuff. Calorically excessive. I've had, among other small inflammatory conditions, eczema ("Contact dermatitis") on my palms for over a decade which I have managed to keep reasonably under control with large daily doses of Fexofenaadine (Allegra). If this theory is correct, lord knows where my body has been putting all of the vA for the last 10 years. So, I'm on the journey.
For some time now I've suspected that my dairy, gluten, and frequent egg consumption have been contributing to global inflammation, however, I lacked a sound reason to give them up because, as I said, most other diets I ever tried always led to frustration. After all, my eczema "...is a contact allergy and it's genetic" right?
I hit the diet pretty hard. Dairy, Gluten, Eggs are gone. Fish, sweet potatoes, carrots, most colored vegetables, etc....all gone. At the moment, I'm able to balance and stick to the following fairly well:
-Slow cooked beef
-White and brown rice
-Black or refried beans
-Turkey lunch meat
-Canned chicken
-Strawberries
-Macadamia Nuts
-Potato Chips
-Blue corn Chips
-White corn tortillas
-White Potatoes
-Blackberries (occasional)
-Organic beef Jerky (occasional)
-Almonds (occasional)
-Occasional other assorted low vA Foods.
Supplements Include
-Vitamin B complex
-Vitamin C
-Taurine
-Probiotic
-Zinc
-Activated Charcoal (Before Bed)
Obviously, changing up so much in my diet so quickly, confounds the conclusion as to what caused the effects of the new diet. Over the last few years, in previous attempts to "Go on a diet" the purpose was to lose weight. It generally meant aggressively counting calories and, the only way I knew my diet was working was the feeling of being hungry when trying to fall asleep. The weight returns quickly.
I am no longer counting calories. With no dairy, gluten, eggs, and low vA (not zero yet, as I do mess up), I have lost about 14 pounds so far and I have yet to feel hungry when going to bed. I have cut my fexofenadine (Allegra) dosage in half and any inflammatory condition I had (including eczema) did not flare up. I know, it's still very early days to see changes in those conditions.
Anyway, I hope to contribute and discuss some on the science board as I dig deeper into a more functional understanding of the underlying biochemistry to all of this. I wish you all the best.
I would stop consumption of nuts and corn , its not useful at all . It would only mess up your intestinal lining and then bile would go back in circulation .
About supplements , I think only Zinc gluconate for a month would be fine , as you are consuming beef . consuming taurine didnt ever help me . I think the science behind the claim that tourine supposedly excretes excess vitamin A is dubious .
We shall see. I think I'm going to stick with this path for a few months unless I have a negative consequence. If I do make changes, they will be slow and singular so I can be attentive to changes.
Ok, bit of an update. I am now over a month-and-a-half in to the foods and supplement regimen I specified above. I have slowly weaned myself completely off of the 360 mg of Allegra (antihistamine) I had been taking daily for over 10 years for palm eczema. My hands have never been healthier. There remains some residual bubbling under the skin of my palms, but the vicious process that once occurred that broke skin and created enormous itchiness and cracks, has not re-occured.
I continue my pattern of relative laziness in that I do not exercise aggressively. However, since this diet began I have now lost 22 pounds (Down from 262). I have been 240 before, but what's unique about it this time is there seems to be less inflamation globally. Where, before, when I was 240, I never really felt much better than I did at 260 due to constant feeling of bloating and inflammation, I am now objectively slimmer in my face and torso to the point that I am shrinking out of all of my clothes and belts.
The only odd symptom is I now get small bouts of itchiness all over. One moment it might be me head, the next on the forearm. It leaves no lasting marks. This is unusual, but it's annoying enough that it's worth noting.
In any case, I am persisting.
Thanks!
Here is a 2016 review study which I think might apply to you since you mentioned a quite quick weight loss (POPs are just one group of fat-soluble toxins that can be stored in fat tissue). The study is called:
"Adverse effects of weight loss: Are persistent organic pollutants a potential culprit?" by
M. Cheikh Rouhou et. al.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27321206/
(the whole study can be found at sci-hub and I attached Figure 1 from that study)
Here is the beginning of their conclusion:
"Weight loss is commonly recommended to people with obesity by clinicians and health professionals. However, there is evidence to suggest potential adverse health effects after a weight loss program. The factors that could explain this phenomenon are poorly understood. One potential factor could be POPs. Following intensive weight loss, significant increases in POPs levels derived from the adipose tissues to the bloodstream could offset the beneficial effects of weight loss. In turn, the accumulation of POPs released in response to an intensive weight loss may impair energy metabolism and stimulate subsequent weight regain."
Also note that itching on the whole body is connected to cholestasis that Anthony Mawson and Dr. Garrett Smith talks about. Just like many other prevalent toxins, most carotenoids and retinoids are fat-soluble and could have been released from your fat storage due to fast weight loss. So I think you should take it very seriously, you might be at the beginning of a vicious cycle as per the attached figure from the 2016 review study.
You might have cholestatic puritus and you can look it up at wikipedia for example.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholestatic_pruritus
"Cholestatic pruritus is the sensation of itch due to nearly any liver disease..."
"Cholestasis means "the slowing or stopping of bile flow" which can be caused by any number of diseases of the liver (which produces the bile), the gallbladder (which stores the bile), or biliary tract (also known as the biliary tree, the conduit that allows the bile to leave the liver and gallbladder and enter the small intestine). When this occurs, conjugated bilirubin and the waste products that usually would be cleared in bile reflux back into the bloodstream."
"It is thought that bile salts that deposit into the skin are responsible for the pruritus (itching) because the levels of bilirubin in the bloodstream and the severity of the pruritus does not appear to be highly correlated.[2]"
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Quote from David on June 22, 2022, 12:22 pmHere is a 2016 review study which I think might apply to you since you mentioned a quite quick weight loss
Also note that itching on the whole body is connected to cholestasis that Anthony Mawson and Dr. Garrett Smith talks about. Just like many other prevalent toxins, most carotenoids and retinoids are fat-soluble and could have been released from your fat storage due to fast weight loss. So I think you should take it very seriously, you might be at the beginning of a vicious cycle as per the attached figure from the 2016 review study.
"Cholestatic pruritus is the sensation of itch due to nearly any liver disease..."
Just to make sure I understand your concern correctly, I'll summarize what I think I'm reading in my native Texan gorilla language.
-After 40 years of eating garbage, the rapid weight loss (fat cells shrinking) may release retinol and other potential toxins into the bloodstream, subsequently overloading the liver and gallbladder in their ability to process these toxins in the timeframe of the rapid weight loss. Thus, the waste products have nowhere else to go but into the bloodstream (and skin) potentially causing the puritus and further symptoms down the track.
Hopefully I got that right. It actually makes a considerable amount of sense but it would be great if there was a way to make sure I understand the process to the point that I can keep pruritus as the worst of the symptoms...and hopefully transient. I have some questions:
-Could you direct me to where I might find more information about this process (specifically with regard to the work of Anthony Mawson and Dr. Smith). Is it on Dr. Smith's forums behind a paywall, as I don't remember reading it before.
-Do you know where I can get more information on this "Vicious cycle" you spoke of, and specifically what that looks like from a practical clinical perspective?
Thanks again for your candor.
First of all I think you should view puritus as a serious sign that you are doing something wrong for you. In your case it sounds like you have been changing too much, too soon.
The problem of jojo weight loss is just one example of a vicious cycle, for each jojo cycle your body gets less and less capable of losing weight, in part due to a reduced base metabolism. Then an even more slower metabolism makes it even harder to lose weight in the future. I see that as the start of a vicious cycle, something that gets more difficult to get out of the longer you do it.
I believe the same happens when you slowly over a long time overburden the liver's detox capability or fast by acute toxicity. The liver slows down its process since it can only detox so much at a specific time. Getting a lower liver detox capability means the risk is greater that you can't handle your already existing toxic load and that will injure the liver further reducing the detox capability even more.
There are many different feedback mechanisms that slow down the liver over time if it is overburden. I don't of that many specific ones but an example is that increased serum all-trans retinoic acid inhibits retinaldehyde formation and promotes retinol-esterfication (storage). Here is a 1993 ferret study on that feedback mechanism:
"Retinoic acid regulates retinol metabolism via feedback inhibition of retinol oxidation and stimulation of retinol esterification in ferret liver"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8320566/
Grant Genereux have written in 2021 about how some people have more problems going low vitamin A and that is probably many different reasons as to why of which he lists some. I think going too fast, too soon is also one of those reasons.
"Detox setback / diet failures / diet successes
The detox setback cycle is still being encountered by too many people. It’s often not short term and is causing people to abandon their low vA diets. In the past we’ve had several theories as to why people are encountering the setback cycle. We’ve suspected a vitamin B deficiency due to increased demands of higher carbs etc. on the B vitamins. We’ve suspected the lack of zinc and other resources needed to sustain the increased requirement for ADH and ALDH enzymes. We’ve suspected that a possible increase in protein intake is causing a surge of stored retinyl esters being released from the liver into bile, and with that the addition vA is being reabsorbed into circulation.
Probably all of the above suspected mechanisms are at play to some degree. Of course, it’s going to vary by individual. Whatever the reasons and mechanisms are, we’ve still not pinned it down enough to where people can reliably avoid getting into this detox state. I see this as a very serious problem, and one that we need to solve. But, it’s way beyond my capabilities to come up with a solution. We probably need some dedicated research on it."
https://ggenereux.blog/2021/05/02/2021-mid-year-update/
Anthony Mawson have written about hypervitaminosis A connected to all kinds of different diseases since 1984. Here is a 2012 paper on influenza called:
"Role of Fat-Soluble Vitamins A and D in the Pathogenesis of Influenza: A New Perspective"
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2013/246737/
Please come and join Dr. Garrett Smith's Love Your Liver program!
-Try to do it before July 1:st (next Friday), since the one-time cost of the program is said to increase and change to a yearly fee after that.
Dr. Garrett Smith has a weekly Friday live stream at youtube where you can also watch them recorded. This episode 14 from 2021 talks quite a bit about cholestasis from around 1 min 50s onwards:
https://youtu.be/PkVnB0wtakE
Thanks for all of this. I went ahead and joined the Love Your Liver Program. I'll keep an eye out on any other symptoms.
@seanmc If you want to lose weight and detox at the same time I'd recommend to try eating only beef muscle meat, tallow and drink only water. That way you keep it really simple and there's no need for supplements either because there are no incomplete foods like white rice in the diet that could mess things up (missing B vitamins, electrolytes etc.). If there are detox symptoms that bother you add butter until the symptoms subside. It does have VA but fat also binds excess VA.