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vegan diet blamed for MS?
Quote from Jiří on March 8, 2026, 1:21 am@joe2 well vegan diet high in copper low in zinc and that can result in metal toxicity not just copper due to low metallothionein and that can result in neurodegenerative diseases as we know. That is just one thing that comes to my mind.
Ever seen a fat vegan? Let alone any healthy looking fat on a vegan? I mean we all need some percentage of heathy fat tissue. It is much higher than zero. No amount of vegetable fat is going to secure the amount of cholesterol and EFA's that we need. In fact the more vegetable / seed oils consumed, the worse that constituent needs will be filled. Seen it first hand a few times.
@joe2 your comments are so weird and out of place all the time lol. I just described one possible scenario why would vegan diet cause MS. Why are you answering on my comment with question if I ever saw fat vegan and go on some fat stuff?
Why you don't say "Yeah and another thing is look at their fat intake" or whatever.. It seems like you want to just arguing all the time no matter what.
Like if I posted comment "I like you" I think you would find weird way to start argument lol..
Anyway to answer your question yeah I saw plenty of fat vegans. Just eat 5000 kcal of vegan junk food a day for couple of months and you will se one in the mirror as well..
Anyways seed oils for sure can cause neurological diseases, but I don't think it is because you will end up low in cholesterol. That wouldn't be the main reason. ( on vegan diet you can eat decent amount of fat from coconuts, macadamia nuts etc.. and it will support cholesterol easily) The main reason is that seed oils will promote oxidative stress and inflammation which is the same reason why heavy metals would cause neurological issues. High oxidative stress and chronic inflammation..
Cool video! I did know one guy who went "low fat" during that phase of our media and he got MS. I'm betting, however, that people who take on vegetarianism, low fat, or other diets already feel kind of crap or they wouldn't be making changes. Regarding vegetarian and vegan, I knew a girl in college who was vegetarian and she didn't make it to her twenties (cancer). But again, I always thought that she must already feel crap or she wouldn't have tried the veg.
Interesting that Christina Applegate had breast cancer and now MS, I know another woman who went through that exact combo, one and then the other. I would wonder if the drugs and other therapies for the breast cancer might have also been an issue.
Sometimes I think I really ought to try carnivore, and yet I can't imagine just eating ribeye twice a day and no snacking, LOL. Do carnivores not even do coffee? OMG. Carnivore is one of the special diets I have never done. I've been ultra low carb, but that was completely different (and was not good for me at all).
@lil-chick "Interesting that Christina Applegate had breast cancer and now MS, I know another woman who went through that exact combo, one and then the other. I would wonder if the drugs and other therapies for the breast cancer might have also been an issue. "
vegan diet is disaster especially for females that are estrogen dominant = were taking birth control pills. That alone will cause copper toxicity.
Now you add high copper low zinc vegan diet on top of that. You got even more estrogen issues, everything from fibroids, cysts in reproductive organs, breasts to aggressive estrogenic cancers.. MS is just another "symptom" of that copper toxicity..
That trend of going vegan killed A LOT of people..
Carnivore without organs is better for females than vegan diet for sure. But it is also far from ideal diet and it will create issues over time..
You simply can't pick some trendy diet and blindly follow it. It will be ok for some and kill some. You are just playing russian roulette basically..
The least harm you do when you really eat everything, mix and rotate all foods all the time that means the body has more chance to take what it needs and not getting poisoned in other things because you don't consume that potential toxin in large amounts..
I would love to be rich and just eat in hotels/restaurants buffet style. That way I would eat every single meal completely different stuff. Just what looks good in the moment.. But when you have to buy and cook for yourself you automatically end up in routine of eating the same foods over and over..
I was just doing dishes and thinking about this thread.
(besides the copper stuff Jiri talks about) I wondered if carnivore works because it is low VA OR vice versa ... ie...if low VA starts getting you somewhere closer to what would be happening on carnivore. (ie low toxin).
I do know that my grandmother didn't seem to suffer for having carbs in her life.
Quote from Jiří on March 8, 2026, 3:23 am
@joe2 your comments are so weird and out of place all the time lol. I just described one possible scenario why would vegan diet cause MS. Why are you answering on my comment with question if I ever saw fat vegan and go on some fat stuff?
Thank you. Nicest think you said to me. I ask questions when unsure if my opinion matters and especially when unsure if my opinion has merit.
Why you don't say "Yeah and another thing is look at their fat intake" or whatever.. It seems like you want to just arguing all the time no matter what.
Argument in US is most often taken as competitive effort. In math it is just theorems and proofs. Loved Geometry / Trigonometry Analytics - er what I can remember of it.
Like if I posted comment "I like you" I think you would find weird way to start argument lol..
If foolish enough to say that, my first thought was "how can you like what you have no clue about?" Is that argumentative question enough?
Anyway to answer your question yeah I saw plenty of fat vegans. Just eat 5000 kcal of vegan junk food a day for couple of months and you will se one in the mirror as well..
Yep. I have seen plenty fat vegans too. That moon faced scenario on so many Hindi Indians comes to mind. That is why I added "healthy fat on vegans" to the question. I trained once with a Brahman. Flabbiest looking guy 6'2", 230#. Strongest most flexible monster I ever touched. Scariest dude ever. Pinned face down with arm chicken winged behind him all the way to floor on opposite shoulder, he slowly and carefully lifted me off the mat. Easily. My pins are among the best I have seen among training partners, law enforcement and military.
Were I a cop tasked with cuffing and detaining this guy, I would take a hard pass. I would ask him politely to come with me. If my boss or partners insisted, I would politely ask him to carefully show them the error of their beliefs. He looked flabby soft and a wreck. Guy was a monster in there. Nicest most comfortable guy alive. Showed me what healthy fat looks and feels like. Brahmans eat better than other castes. Probably better than anyone. Even as they lead a religion that touts veganism, they eat plenty and the best of meat. Small wonder they are among the wealthiest oldest line on Earth.
Anyways seed oils for sure can cause neurological diseases, but I don't think it is because you will end up low in cholesterol. That wouldn't be the main reason. ( on vegan diet you can eat decent amount of fat from coconuts, macadamia nuts etc.. and it will support cholesterol easily) The main reason is that seed oils will promote oxidative stress and inflammation which is the same reason why heavy metals would cause neurological issues. High oxidative stress and chronic inflammation..
My guess is seed oils shred fatty tissue - myelin sheathing - and cholesterol. I think they do it by displacing good fat nutrients and by tearing down existing tissue probably with oxidative damage.
Getting enough fat to burn is way different than getting the enough of the right kind of fat to build good tissue. To make good fat building blocks, we need high quality animal fat. Same as we need high quality animal protein to make good protein building blocks. Sure we can get protein and fat from vegan sources. Not the same type and quality though.
And no, I ate like that and lost weight. To date, I have been part of that 5% of us that lose where every one else gains. Although lately I started adding weight in good comfortable ways and places. We need to buy some new pants. Ones I am wearing were baggy everywhere 6 months ago. Now they are tight enough that tucking in shirts is difficult. Not like belly is sticking out either. I look the same in all proportions. Pants are just tighter everywhere. First time in memory my pants do not fall down without a belt. So weird.
Completely alien to me. First time in 65 years. First guess is lack of vA. Second guess is bringing in sufficient calcium. Noticed last week, my craving for cheese and calcium/magnesium mineral water slacked off. Wonder if I repleted tissue levels. Sure feels like it with lack of cramps and increased flexibility, strength and stamina.
My brain does not function well with out carbs.
Quote from Ginny on March 8, 2026, 6:23 pmMy brain does not function well with out carbs.
For brain to function low carb we first require a switch to flip to ketones from carbohydrates. To flip that switch quickly and avoid bonk, requires zero carbs, better yet zero carbs, protein, fat. Fasting is quickest safest route. Those who have fasted already know what ketosis feels like. After x hours - 5 for some 25 for others - hunger disappears. Comes after using up glycogen stores. What is left is a clear comfortable strong feeling. Feels like when the engine is running on fumes and about to run out of gas. Until it does run out, it runs much stronger and faster.
That is a place to be more careful. Train too hard in that state and a second harsher bonk comes. Running low on carbs but not low enough to switch to ketones can be a bad bonk. Very sad. Very weak. Running out of ketones without access to more fat or ketones and no access to switch back to carbs is a bonk too far. That is where damage starts. Catabolism in a harsh way. Sadder than sad.
Recovery requires careful intake of high quality food - carbs or fat with some protein. Like Denise Minger's idea. Fat intake under 10% of total or over 70% of total. Either way protein needs to be 20 to 30% of total.
The happy part of this is that all of us, even the strongest, best trained up, have a few hours of glucose glycogen stored up. That is ok and keeps us close to starchy food stores. Much happier is that all but the most wrecked of us have days of fat stored. Fat burns much more efficiently than carbs. More calories in a gram of fat than carbohydrates. Think diesel vs gasoline. Massive train engines, trucks and heavy equipment run on diesel. And they go much farther with heavier loads that gas engines. Fast cars run on gas. Or sometimes alcohol.
If low carb is hard it is not the diet, it is the ability to transition and the skillset to transact the diet well. Can not count the times folk eating apple pie covered with ice cream told me they were low carb, loved it and did it for years. Well after all they were eating low carb relative to what carbs they used to eat. For some, eating 400 calories a day in carbs is seriously low carb.