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Viktor's progress

#1 · February 15, 2024, 3:33 am

Quote from Viktor on February 15, 2024, 3:33 am
Hi everyone! I've been posting on this forum for some time now, but I've never put my whole story here. So, if anyone is interested, here it is. Also, thanks again to Grant and all members for keeping this place alive and their endless support!

My severe vitamin A toxicity wasn't caused by supplements but from dietary sources alone.

Around 2019 I started eating fried beef or chicken liver several times a week. I don't know why I did that - probably because I'd read how healthy it was and I somehow liked the taste of fried liver with onions. On top of that, I ate canned cod liver sometimes as well.

I guess my first noticeable heath issues were dry eyes and mild stomach inflammation. I didn't connect the dots, but instead started googling and found that dry eyes can actually be caused by... well, vitamin A deficiency. Some part of my brain responsible for logical thinking wasn't working, I guess, otherwise I would calculate that I was already getting multiple times the RDA for vitamin A, combined with dairy, eggs and beta-carotene vegetables. I tried gluten/dairy/sugar-free diets later on. which didn't help. It got worse.

By then I could no longer tolerate livers, which would cause me severe fatigue and brain fod. Still not knowing what was causing my problems, I decided to "eat the rainbow" by including even more beta-carotene rich foods, carrots in particular. Huge mistake!

My skin turned yellow over several weeks, and the list of my woes included:

debilitating fatigue

mood swings and anger

brain fog

dry eyes

dry skin, dandruff, painful cracks on heels

low thyroid, freezing cold, borderline low free T3 and T4 despite normal TSH

high blood sugar

high cholesterol

gastririts, colon inflammation

blepharitis (eye discharge)

brain heaviness, inescapable sick feeling inside my skull

low WBC on multiple blood tests

It was horrible. On a vitamin A toxicity scale of 1 to 10, when 10 is literally lying and waiting to die, I'd put my state back then at a solid 9.5. Sometimes I didn't even remember how I got home from somewhere, so bad it was.

Another one of my mistake was dealing will all those issues separately. I went to a dermatologist for my dandruff, I saw an ophthalmologist for the eye stuff, and went to the gastro doc for gastritis and colon inflammation, etc. I was given PPIs, which made me feel even worse (I didn't really think that was possible lol). Nothing helped much.

Around summer of 2021 I finally went a few days without carrots and already felt the difference. I felt kinda good for the first time in years. I gave up all high carotene foods and was okay for several months. My skin color turned normal again.

Then it all started to come back. I became very sensitive to cheese, then eggs and then a whole lot of other foods I could tolerate until then. I was quite miserable for almost two years despite being on a low A diet - until recently.

What I've tried and what helped:

low vitamin A diet. In my opinion, it definitely works but with one caveat - while ditching obvious offenders, such as livers, carrots, pumpkin and leafy greens, the extent and dedication of going low A beyond that isn't much compared to the effect of proper vitamin A detox. In other words, if some butter, eggs and dairy cause you symptoms, then go without them for some time. However, the low A diet alone doesn't fix the whole picture;

beans. Those didn't work for me. Beans caused me uncomfortable gut sensations and didn't do much for detox despite their high fiber content. Maybe it's just not my kind of food.

mushrooms - those finally worked for my bowel movements and really improved my overall well-being, including vitamin A sensitivity. There's no need to gorge on mushrooms (or on any food, for that matter), and a small portion will do for starters.

fasting, fermented foods, gut health. By fasting I really mean giving your migrating complex some time to work - let it growl between meals, - and not eating 2-3 hours after waking up and before bed. For probiotics, the acidophiline drink works best for me, but in moderation.

vitamin D3 supplements. And finally the game changer. Nothing of the above really worked alone until I started to supplement with D3. Also, around the time I first got my vitamin A toxicity symptoms, I'd never taken D3 and my levels were at an abysmal 12 ng/mL. I then started taking it, raised my levels a bit to 40 ng/mL but continued to eat high A. Shortly after that, my stomach could no longer tolerate any supplements and I ditched D3. I take a total of 50k IU a week now, and will lower my dose after I re-test at 50+ ng/mL. Lower doses worked as well, but the result wasn't that obvious. I have lots of mutations related to insufficient vitamin D status. I mean, really almost all the SNPs that have been discovered so far. I take magnesium on most days and specifically on those when I take D3. I eat a diet pretty high in calcium from dairy and I eat cheese for K2 and calcium as well (oh yeah, I never thought I'd be able to eat cheese again). In my opinion, living in a country with almost no sun for much of the year and the only opportunity to get it naturally being during a few summer months (when the shadow is shorter than the height), without D3 supplementation my vitamin A toxicity was a ticking bomb waiting to go off at any moment. There's been researched linking low vit D status to vitamin A toxicity, as well as multiple anecdotal accounts from people whose vitamin A tolerance greatly improves with their vitamin D status. Once again, in my case, vitamin D3 supplementation is the groundwork for all the other steps above. None of them worked alone or in any combination and were effective compared to after starting vitamin D3.

Of course, this is only my personal experience. I'm not 100.00% free of vitamin A toxicity now. Getting enough vitamin D won't deplete all the excess retinol stores overnight. But I can tolerate almost all full-fat dairy, as well as eggs and orange vegetables in moderate amounts and I feel good.

Hi everyone! I've been posting on this forum for some time now, but I've never put my whole story here. So, if anyone is interested, here it is. Also, thanks again to Grant and all members for keeping this place alive and their endless support!

My severe vitamin A toxicity wasn't caused by supplements but from dietary sources alone.

Around 2019 I started eating fried beef or chicken liver several times a week. I don't know why I did that - probably because I'd read how healthy it was and I somehow liked the taste of fried liver with onions. On top of that, I ate canned cod liver sometimes as well.

I guess my first noticeable heath issues were dry eyes and mild stomach inflammation. I didn't connect the dots, but instead started googling and found that dry eyes can actually be caused by... well, vitamin A deficiency. Some part of my brain responsible for logical thinking wasn't working, I guess, otherwise I would calculate that I was already getting multiple times the RDA for vitamin A, combined with dairy, eggs and beta-carotene vegetables. I tried gluten/dairy/sugar-free diets later on. which didn't help. It got worse.

By then I could no longer tolerate livers, which would cause me severe fatigue and brain fod. Still not knowing what was causing my problems, I decided to "eat the rainbow" by including even more beta-carotene rich foods, carrots in particular. Huge mistake!

My skin turned yellow over several weeks, and the list of my woes included:

debilitating fatigue
mood swings and anger
brain fog
dry eyes
dry skin, dandruff, painful cracks on heels
low thyroid, freezing cold, borderline low free T3 and T4 despite normal TSH
high blood sugar
high cholesterol
gastririts, colon inflammation
blepharitis (eye discharge)
brain heaviness, inescapable sick feeling inside my skull
low WBC on multiple blood tests

It was horrible. On a vitamin A toxicity scale of 1 to 10, when 10 is literally lying and waiting to die, I'd put my state back then at a solid 9.5. Sometimes I didn't even remember how I got home from somewhere, so bad it was.

Another one of my mistake was dealing will all those issues separately. I went to a dermatologist for my dandruff, I saw an ophthalmologist for the eye stuff, and went to the gastro doc for gastritis and colon inflammation, etc. I was given PPIs, which made me feel even worse (I didn't really think that was possible lol). Nothing helped much.

Around summer of 2021 I finally went a few days without carrots and already felt the difference. I felt kinda good for the first time in years. I gave up all high carotene foods and was okay for several months. My skin color turned normal again.

Then it all started to come back. I became very sensitive to cheese, then eggs and then a whole lot of other foods I could tolerate until then. I was quite miserable for almost two years despite being on a low A diet - until recently.

What I've tried and what helped:

low vitamin A diet. In my opinion, it definitely works but with one caveat - while ditching obvious offenders, such as livers, carrots, pumpkin and leafy greens, the extent and dedication of going low A beyond that isn't much compared to the effect of proper vitamin A detox. In other words, if some butter, eggs and dairy cause you symptoms, then go without them for some time. However, the low A diet alone doesn't fix the whole picture;
beans. Those didn't work for me. Beans caused me uncomfortable gut sensations and didn't do much for detox despite their high fiber content. Maybe it's just not my kind of food.
mushrooms - those finally worked for my bowel movements and really improved my overall well-being, including vitamin A sensitivity. There's no need to gorge on mushrooms (or on any food, for that matter), and a small portion will do for starters.
fasting, fermented foods, gut health. By fasting I really mean giving your migrating complex some time to work - let it growl between meals, - and not eating 2-3 hours after waking up and before bed. For probiotics, the acidophiline drink works best for me, but in moderation.
vitamin D3 supplements. And finally the game changer. Nothing of the above really worked alone until I started to supplement with D3. Also, around the time I first got my vitamin A toxicity symptoms, I'd never taken D3 and my levels were at an abysmal 12 ng/mL. I then started taking it, raised my levels a bit to 40 ng/mL but continued to eat high A. Shortly after that, my stomach could no longer tolerate any supplements and I ditched D3. I take a total of 50k IU a week now, and will lower my dose after I re-test at 50+ ng/mL. Lower doses worked as well, but the result wasn't that obvious. I have lots of mutations related to insufficient vitamin D status. I mean, really almost all the SNPs that have been discovered so far. I take magnesium on most days and specifically on those when I take D3. I eat a diet pretty high in calcium from dairy and I eat cheese for K2 and calcium as well (oh yeah, I never thought I'd be able to eat cheese again). In my opinion, living in a country with almost no sun for much of the year and the only opportunity to get it naturally being during a few summer months (when the shadow is shorter than the height), without D3 supplementation my vitamin A toxicity was a ticking bomb waiting to go off at any moment. There's been researched linking low vit D status to vitamin A toxicity, as well as multiple anecdotal accounts from people whose vitamin A tolerance greatly improves with their vitamin D status. Once again, in my case, vitamin D3 supplementation is the groundwork for all the other steps above. None of them worked alone or in any combination and were effective compared to after starting vitamin D3.

Of course, this is only my personal experience. I'm not 100.00% free of vitamin A toxicity now. Getting enough vitamin D won't deplete all the excess retinol stores overnight. But I can tolerate almost all full-fat dairy, as well as eggs and orange vegetables in moderate amounts and I feel good.

puddleduck, lil chick and 3 other users have reacted to this post.

#2 · February 15, 2024, 5:59 am

What an excellent writeup. Thanks!

I wonder if you mean "vitamin A tolerance greatly improves with their vitamin *D* status".

I wonder if lots of us here live in northerly areas. I do. And I cover up, because I'm a burn and peel.

Viktor and Rebecca3 have reacted to this post.

#3 · February 15, 2024, 7:53 am

I would love to see your hair test! good on you for figuring out the vitamin A toxicity! I am not sure I'd recommend large amounts of vit D though. Hypercalcemia is still a risk. Though that is more of an issue with high vit A as well. Not able to tolerate beans can be a sign your liver is still toxic. So please don't go just by how you feel. Go by how much soluble fiber you can tolerate. If you get really uncomfortable from it it's a huge sign of toxicity.

*I hope my bluntness doesn't offend, I tend to say things like it is, nothing personal I wish you well no matter what path you choose

Viktor and Rebecca3 have reacted to this post.

#4 · February 15, 2024, 8:00 am

Quote from lil chick on February 15, 2024, 5:59 am

What an excellent writeup. Thanks!

I wonder if you mean "vitamin A tolerance greatly improves with their vitamin *D* status".

I wonder if lots of us here live in northerly areas. I do. And I cover up, because I'm a burn and peel.

Sure! Fixed.

#5 · February 15, 2024, 8:11 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 7:53 am

I would love to see your hair test! good on you for figuring out the vitamin A toxicity! I am not sure I'd recommend large amounts of vit D though. Hypercalcemia is still a risk. Though that is more of an issue with high vit A as well. Not able to tolerate beans can be a sign your liver is still toxic. So please don't go just by how you feel. Go by how much soluble fiber you can tolerate. If you get really uncomfortable from it it's a huge sign of toxicity.

*I hope my bluntness doesn't offend, I tend to say things like it is, nothing personal I wish you well no matter what path you choose

I check my calcium from time to time. Incidentally, my calcium level reading was borderline high once, and next time it was in the middle range - right after I'd been eating more cheese for a couple of weeks and also taking more D3. Maybe it's the K2 in cheese finally "directing" the calcium from my blood into the bones (that's the simplest explanation, of course).

With beans I get more of an IBS-type bloating, I'd say. I'd probably have the same reaction even before the whole vitamin A ordeal, but I barely ate them back then. My liver ultrasound and all blood tests are normal. They weren't always that good in my most toxic days - I'd get elevated ALT and AST readings from time to time.

Also, I'd regularly have very low WBC in blood tests - so much so as I was referred to a hematologist at one point. After ditching high-A foods and starting vitamin D, it's almost always within range (even if it's not, the WBC count isn't dangerously low).

#6 · February 15, 2024, 9:15 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 9:15 am

Quote from Viktor on February 15, 2024, 8:11 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 7:53 am

I would love to see your hair test! good on you for figuring out the vitamin A toxicity! I am not sure I'd recommend large amounts of vit D though. Hypercalcemia is still a risk. Though that is more of an issue with high vit A as well. Not able to tolerate beans can be a sign your liver is still toxic. So please don't go just by how you feel. Go by how much soluble fiber you can tolerate. If you get really uncomfortable from it it's a huge sign of toxicity.

*I hope my bluntness doesn't offend, I tend to say things like it is, nothing personal I wish you well no matter what path you choose

I check my calcium from time to time. Incidentally, my calcium level reading was borderline high once, and next time it was in the middle range - right after I'd been eating more cheese for a couple of weeks and also taking more D3. Maybe it's the K2 in cheese finally "directing" the calcium from my blood into the bones (that's the simplest explanation, of course).

With beans I get more of an IBS-type bloating, I'd say. I'd probably have the same reaction even before the whole vitamin A ordeal, but I barely ate them back then. My liver ultrasound and all blood tests are normal. They weren't always that good in my most toxic days - I'd get elevated ALT and AST readings from time to time.

Also, I'd regularly have very low WBC in blood tests - so much so as I was referred to a hematologist at one point. After ditching high-A foods and starting vitamin D, it's almost always within range (even if it's not, the WBC count isn't dangerously low).

Yeah it could be the k2. A hair test would let you know if you are a slow oxidizer. If so then you won't be needing all that calcium.

Yeah beans would give me IBS symptoms, I am now eating them twice a day, something I didn't even think was possible. My liver enzymes were fine while not being able to tolerate fiber. It's from a toxic bile acid profile. That won't show up on any liver tests until you are in critical condition. It's SIBO. Which over time could give you heart disease. Need to watch cholesterol and triglycerides as well. The mushrooms could be helping with that though.

Quote from Viktor on February 15, 2024, 8:11 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 7:53 am

I would love to see your hair test! good on you for figuring out the vitamin A toxicity! I am not sure I'd recommend large amounts of vit D though. Hypercalcemia is still a risk. Though that is more of an issue with high vit A as well. Not able to tolerate beans can be a sign your liver is still toxic. So please don't go just by how you feel. Go by how much soluble fiber you can tolerate. If you get really uncomfortable from it it's a huge sign of toxicity.

*I hope my bluntness doesn't offend, I tend to say things like it is, nothing personal I wish you well no matter what path you choose

I check my calcium from time to time. Incidentally, my calcium level reading was borderline high once, and next time it was in the middle range - right after I'd been eating more cheese for a couple of weeks and also taking more D3. Maybe it's the K2 in cheese finally "directing" the calcium from my blood into the bones (that's the simplest explanation, of course).

With beans I get more of an IBS-type bloating, I'd say. I'd probably have the same reaction even before the whole vitamin A ordeal, but I barely ate them back then. My liver ultrasound and all blood tests are normal. They weren't always that good in my most toxic days - I'd get elevated ALT and AST readings from time to time.

Also, I'd regularly have very low WBC in blood tests - so much so as I was referred to a hematologist at one point. After ditching high-A foods and starting vitamin D, it's almost always within range (even if it's not, the WBC count isn't dangerously low).

Yeah it could be the k2. A hair test would let you know if you are a slow oxidizer. If so then you won't be needing all that calcium.

Yeah beans would give me IBS symptoms, I am now eating them twice a day, something I didn't even think was possible. My liver enzymes were fine while not being able to tolerate fiber. It's from a toxic bile acid profile. That won't show up on any liver tests until you are in critical condition. It's SIBO. Which over time could give you heart disease. Need to watch cholesterol and triglycerides as well. The mushrooms could be helping with that though.

#7 · February 15, 2024, 10:34 am

Quote from Viktor on February 15, 2024, 10:34 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 9:15 am

Quote from Viktor on February 15, 2024, 8:11 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 7:53 am

I would love to see your hair test! good on you for figuring out the vitamin A toxicity! I am not sure I'd recommend large amounts of vit D though. Hypercalcemia is still a risk. Though that is more of an issue with high vit A as well. Not able to tolerate beans can be a sign your liver is still toxic. So please don't go just by how you feel. Go by how much soluble fiber you can tolerate. If you get really uncomfortable from it it's a huge sign of toxicity.

*I hope my bluntness doesn't offend, I tend to say things like it is, nothing personal I wish you well no matter what path you choose

I check my calcium from time to time. Incidentally, my calcium level reading was borderline high once, and next time it was in the middle range - right after I'd been eating more cheese for a couple of weeks and also taking more D3. Maybe it's the K2 in cheese finally "directing" the calcium from my blood into the bones (that's the simplest explanation, of course).

With beans I get more of an IBS-type bloating, I'd say. I'd probably have the same reaction even before the whole vitamin A ordeal, but I barely ate them back then. My liver ultrasound and all blood tests are normal. They weren't always that good in my most toxic days - I'd get elevated ALT and AST readings from time to time.

Also, I'd regularly have very low WBC in blood tests - so much so as I was referred to a hematologist at one point. After ditching high-A foods and starting vitamin D, it's almost always within range (even if it's not, the WBC count isn't dangerously low).

Yeah it could be the k2. A hair test would let you know if you are a slow oxidizer. If so then you won't be needing all that calcium.

Yeah beans would give me IBS symptoms, I am now eating them twice a day, something I didn't even think was possible. My liver enzymes were fine while not being able to tolerate fiber. It's from a toxic bile acid profile. That won't show up on any liver tests until you are in critical condition. It's SIBO. Which over time could give you heart disease. Need to watch cholesterol and triglycerides as well. The mushrooms could be helping with that though.

Well, I did a lactulose SIBO breath test when I was having the worst symptoms, which came out negative. I have some residual colon inflammation, according to my stool test, so the doc said we'd check calprotectin later.

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 9:15 am

Quote from Viktor on February 15, 2024, 8:11 am

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 7:53 am

I would love to see your hair test! good on you for figuring out the vitamin A toxicity! I am not sure I'd recommend large amounts of vit D though. Hypercalcemia is still a risk. Though that is more of an issue with high vit A as well. Not able to tolerate beans can be a sign your liver is still toxic. So please don't go just by how you feel. Go by how much soluble fiber you can tolerate. If you get really uncomfortable from it it's a huge sign of toxicity.

*I hope my bluntness doesn't offend, I tend to say things like it is, nothing personal I wish you well no matter what path you choose

I check my calcium from time to time. Incidentally, my calcium level reading was borderline high once, and next time it was in the middle range - right after I'd been eating more cheese for a couple of weeks and also taking more D3. Maybe it's the K2 in cheese finally "directing" the calcium from my blood into the bones (that's the simplest explanation, of course).

With beans I get more of an IBS-type bloating, I'd say. I'd probably have the same reaction even before the whole vitamin A ordeal, but I barely ate them back then. My liver ultrasound and all blood tests are normal. They weren't always that good in my most toxic days - I'd get elevated ALT and AST readings from time to time.

Also, I'd regularly have very low WBC in blood tests - so much so as I was referred to a hematologist at one point. After ditching high-A foods and starting vitamin D, it's almost always within range (even if it's not, the WBC count isn't dangerously low).

Yeah it could be the k2. A hair test would let you know if you are a slow oxidizer. If so then you won't be needing all that calcium.

Yeah beans would give me IBS symptoms, I am now eating them twice a day, something I didn't even think was possible. My liver enzymes were fine while not being able to tolerate fiber. It's from a toxic bile acid profile. That won't show up on any liver tests until you are in critical condition. It's SIBO. Which over time could give you heart disease. Need to watch cholesterol and triglycerides as well. The mushrooms could be helping with that though.

Well, I did a lactulose SIBO breath test when I was having the worst symptoms, which came out negative. I have some residual colon inflammation, according to my stool test, so the doc said we'd check calprotectin later.

#8 · February 15, 2024, 11:56 am

Wow you've done all the testing possible! I have very few tests done. But I do know at my worst I was a slow oxidizer on my hair test. Have you ever considered a hair test? I think it says more than breath tests, stool tests, hormone tests, etc. Typically vitamin D will make one more hypothyroid over time as it raises hair calcium. Raised hair calcium doesn't mean raised blood calcium.

#9 · February 15, 2024, 1:01 pm

Quote from Janelle525 on February 15, 2024, 11:56 am

Wow you've done all the testing possible! I have very few tests done. But I do know at my worst I was a slow oxidizer on my hair test. Have you ever considered a hair test? I think it says more than breath tests, stool tests, hormone tests, etc. Typically vitamin D will make one more hypothyroid over time as it raises hair calcium. Raised hair calcium doesn't mean raised blood calcium.

Honestly, none of the docs I saw, even the holistic ones, ever suggested I do the hair test. I know of its existence, of course, but it's defiitely not covered by my insurance and is pretty costly if paid for out of pocket. Did yours reveal anything else you found crucial and acted on? I also did a "genetic passport" - a gene report performed using the same technology as 23andme, - which revealed the MTHFR mutation, as well as lots of others related to low folate levels, vit D, poor beta-carotene → retinol conversion, etc.

#10 · February 15, 2024, 1:38 pm

I unfortunately didn't act on anything back then and continued to poison myself with vitamin A. I wish I had listened to the mineral balancing folks back then (minus the vit A because that's being given to slow oxidizers apparently). Yes slow oxidizers will also have problems with methylation and getting rid of toxic metals. So the liver and organs will just fill up over time. Doesn't mean you use methylation protocols though. I don't agree with those protocols they seem to be stuck on methylated b vitamins without any improvement. I think the best bet is a diet like Grant's: starch, beans, meat.

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