Discussion

I needed to disable self-signups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type sign-ups lately. Please contact me directly if you want membership on this forum. Thanks.

Forum Navigation
Please to create posts and topics.

Vit A blood tests

12
Quote from rob on July 8, 2019, 5:17 pm

As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I've taken VitA blood tests for the last 3 months with following results:

4/8/19 =  59.3  ug/dL       ,       5/28/2019  =  56.8        ,      7/1/2019  =  53.2

So I'm decreasing VitA blood levels about 0.07 ug/dL per day.  That would equate to 2.1 decrease per month and ~25 ug/dL per year.

I started zero VitA about 6 months prior to the first test above.  Anyone else seeing similar rates of decrease?  I'm still worried this is too slow and I have hidden VitA somewhere in my diet...thx, Rob

 

 

Rob, it seems that you are basing your expectations of progress on Grant's initial estimate of how many months worth of vitamin A is stored in the liver. I think that is a lower bound and for most people it is going to be much longer than that, if only because vitamin A is also stored in other tissues, primarily fatty tissue (but also bone marrow and others).

Serum retinol levels tend to be pretty homeostatic, as demonstrated in this research on children in rural South Africa. The title of that paper is extremely misleading, since 1/3 of the kids who ate liver less than once/month and also hadn't had any supplementation in the previous year had vitamin A toxicity as measured by the isotope method. These are kids who are thought to be at such a risk of vitamin A deficiency that the WHO is supplementing them with shots of vitamin A. And yet 1/3 of them were already toxic before any supplementation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31089689

Actually you can't see any of those details in the abstract. If you want the full text let me know and I'll find a way to get it to you.

Another study where they tried to induce vitamin A deficiency in adult humans estimated that it would take closer to 2 years on a diet of zero vitamin A. Now I don't know how close you'd have to get to that in order to see a significant drop in retinol plasma levels. But you can imagine why some or all symptoms might resolve before the serum retinol level sees major reduction: your body draws retinol stores from various tissues. Retinol being drained from tissue can help. Also, many symptoms are probably caused by your body trying to get rid of excess retinol. If you are drawing down stores of retinol, your body won't be trying to get rid of excess anymore -- I guess with the exception of detox cycles.

As an aside, anybody with an auto-immune condition knows that the conditions tend to experience periods of relative calm with periods of being "flared up." I suspect flare-ups are probably when the body is trying to push retinol out of the system -- similar to a detox cycle except they don't occur alongside attempt to draw down retinol stores with low vitamin A diet.

Bottom line: I wouldn't worry too much about serum retinol levels at this point. Garrett Smith used the metaphor of a gas tank and a car engine in the context of the homeostasis of serum retinol. Your gas tank (retinol stored in fat and liver) will keep supplying the engine (blood supply) with a steady supply of gas (serum retinol), until the gas tank is empty. That's when you're likely to see a big drop.

In a video he did about retinol blood tests, Garrett said that his goal is to get people's serum retinol levels below 20 ug/dL (or .7 umol/L). So you've got a ways to go!

Rachel and lil chick have reacted to this post.
Rachellil chick

Great analysis and summary Josh.  As I keep following the diet, I'll keep taking blood work every month and we'll see if serum VitA starts to drop more quickly.

Grant asked if I've seen symptomatic improvements since starting in Nov'18.  My main complaint is migraines (whole body inflammation - not just headache) every 5-15 days for the past 2oyrs.  It's maybe a little better - in terms of pain and frequency but not digitally different yet.  I had a weird stuffy ear with tinnitus that's clearly gotten better.  I had a few teeth that would periodically throb in pain and that's gone too.

thx,

Rob

 

 

lil chick has reacted to this post.
lil chick

I did another 2 month VitA blood test and my trend is continuing at about the same rate:

4/18/19 = 59.3 (ug/dL)  ,   5/28/19 = 56.8  ,  7/1/19 = 53.2  ,  9/3/19 = 46.5

My first data point (4/18/19) was after 6 months on zero VitA diet (started 11/2018).  I'm still seeing a decrease of 2-3 ug/dL per month or 25-36 per year. 

The fact that these measurements follow a pretty linear trend tells me it's a good measure of VitA status in the body.  If tissue/blood VitA levels were constantly being dumped and dynamic, I would think this trend wouldn't be so linear.

If anyone has similar results, please post as it would be good to know if these trends hold for more people.

thx

Rob

 

 

 

 

empirebuilder31 has reacted to this post.
empirebuilder31

@rob I just did my 2nd blood test and the results are similar but I am doing a broader diet as I mentioned above. I had been uncertain whether to test or not due to cost but so glad I did. Here I have to go via Dr and pay consult fees too, argh. Although I am looking forward to Dr seeing a gradual decline in my VA and me being proud of it.

So I'm decreasing VitA blood levels about 0.07 ug/dL per day.  That would equate to 2.1 decrease per month and ~25 ug/dL per year.

  1. at 3 months low VA 70 ug/dl (2.5umol/L)
  2. at 11months low VA 56ug/dl(2 umol/L) 

So feeling rather excited to see the changes as well as experience positive health changes too.

I am curious how much change others have seen with their blood tests.

 

Quote from Mokus on September 20, 2019, 2:36 am

@rob I just did my 2nd blood test and the results are similar but I am doing a broader diet as I mentioned above. I had been uncertain whether to test or not due to cost but so glad I did. Here I have to go via Dr and pay consult fees too, argh. Although I am looking forward to Dr seeing a gradual decline in my VA and me being proud of it.

So I'm decreasing VitA blood levels about 0.07 ug/dL per day.  That would equate to 2.1 decrease per month and ~25 ug/dL per year.

  1. at 3 months low VA 70 ug/dl (2.5umol/L)
  2. at 11months low VA 52ug/dl(2 umol/L) The decrease is about 2.25 per month

So feeling rather excited to see the changes as well as experience positive health changes too.

I am curious how much change others have seen with their blood tests.

 

Thanks for sharing @mokus, really shows how slowly the body is decreasing the stored amounts via circulation.  Points to the 2 to 3yr mark discussed to get down to nominal levels.  Although I think Dr. Smith mentioned that at a certain point the numbers drop off a cliff, almost like a bottleneck dam is broken.

Also shows how small the amounts are dropping!   ‭0.00225‬ gram of VA per 1 litre of blood per month.

How are your symptoms these days?  overall health?

 

DWL has reacted to this post.
DWL

@orion 

My main issue was insomnia and my sleep is decent nowadays. Seasonal hayfever has stopped but summertime will confirm. Still have extra weight, minor vision issues and pelvic floor/bladder  issue that I reckon will improve. The detox symptoms are no longer respiratory and less sleep disruption but muscular aches and pains. In comparison to others I have always felt rather healthy and don't get sick often or for long. However I feel there have been underlying stress and lymphatic congestion that niggles away at health, like the insomnia and hayfever. So definitely feel there is more I can improve. 

Although I think Dr. Smith mentioned that at a certain point the numbers drop off a cliff, almost like a bottleneck dam is broken.

That is my goal!

Orion has reacted to this post.
Orion
12