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Vitamin A Detox, Thiamin/D Deficiency, The Flu...and Pregnancy
Hi All,
I have appreciated the many recent posts discussing the possible causes of deficiencies on a Low A/"Low Allergen" diet. I can definitely see why a white-rice-based diet has potential to worsen not only Vit. A overload, but also B vitamin deficiencies, etc. (which I suspect has been an issue for my family for a long time now - the classic "we're on a gut healing diet but our guts are getting worse after ten years!" situation).... I have changed my family's diet over the past several months, including the addition of beans almost every day, supplements with low doses of B1/B2/B5/biotin/Vitamin D, and oats for one meal a day instead of rice.
Even after these supplements and changes, we have had the worst flu season of our lives (we had it bad at Thanksgiving for 6 weeks; lately it's been 3+ weeks, with one family member after another succumbing to fever/chills/aches/headache/brain fog/etc. etc., plus apparent secondary infections that resemble "bronchitis"). I can safely say that despite the many improvements I've experienced since beginning our A Detox last July, improved immune function is NOT one of them!
I have a question, and I wonder if @ggenereux or others have any theories about what might be happening within the body during the many months/years following the adoption of a Low A diet - in particular, do you think that the mobilization of retinol or retinoic acid in the body during bouts of flu could potentially match the teratogenic effects of Vitamin A-based drugs? I ask because...I wonder whether Whatever Is Going On during this time could be harmful to...ahem...a just-conceived fetus? 🙁
Thanks for any theories - I know that certainty is impossible, but I'd love anything that might ease my mind.
My best guess as to what’s happening is that the liver and other organs are starting to expel more of the vitamin A that they have accumulated over the prior years. This can then lead to the rise in serum levels that some people have reported. Vitamin A also weakens cell membranes, and I think that is why some people become more susceptible to infections like the flu at this stage.
I hope all is well with the ... ahem... portion of the worry. 8) Hopefully the human body will do it's part to protect, this isn't a new foe...
For whatever reason I don't feel that I've become any more susceptible to germs during these last 10 months. (knock on wood?) Is it luck or something I'm doing, who knows?
I hope things get easier! 🙂
@ggenereux and @lil chick, thanks for your thoughts. I can't spin any of this to sound exactly GREAT for fetal development...although if a body has already been expelling extra vitamin A for eight months then _maybe_ the high serum levels of detox aren't necessarily worse than they were back when that person (me!!) was consuming super high quantities of CLO, liver, dairy, eggs yolks, sweet potatoes, and green vegetables?? I mean, one can always hope! I do not like the alternative possibility, such as unmentionable defects like spina bifida etc...and I have a tiny hope that a miscarriage would happen if the defects were bad enough. 🙁
Life feels like such an experiment in chemistry and physiology, which is super annoying when so many people put parenting down exclusively to Whether or Not you Have the Psychology Right, and Are A "Good" Parent!! All of my babies were tongue-tied, and I likely had an over-full liver for all of them at the time they were conceived. I'd like to hope that any future baby would be healthier...but it's hard to find a good theory to support that, unless my body is additionally healing up its defenses even while circulating retinoids are temporarily higher??
Hi Again,
Not to be too personally obsessed about my current line of thinking, but...I can't help it. I'm twelve weeks pregnant as of today, and whether the severe flu I had back in February was "just" the flu, or COVID, my second bout of it literally began the day after conception. I probably had a fever; I definitely had chills, muscle aches, dry cough, shortness of breath, loss of smell/taste (complete loss for three days), and then severe sinus congestion (not a usual COVID symptom - so maybe "just" the flu after all?).
Anyway, @ggenereux, I don't ask for your opinion lightly, and I of _course_ recogize that you're not treating or recommending any course of action for sickness etc....but I would appreciate your honest opinion: if you were in my shoes, would you be worried about birth defects induced by potentially elevated levels of vitamin A during my flu (which lasted three weeks after onset)?
I'm trying to find any good reasons NOT to worry, but think about it a lot in the current Infection Aware climate, if you know what I mean!
Thanks for any thoughts,
Sarabeth
It's not being obsessed, it's fair enough to be concerned about that.
Have you had your serum retinol level measured recently? You can compare it against the average for women your age if you don't have a previous reference measurement to compare it to. My serum retinol after 12 months was lower than the average for men my age.
Another thing you can do is research pregnancy risks from getting the flu, there might be some data on it.
Also, you might want to seek the advice of an obstetrician/perinatologist or endocrinologist?
Quote from Sarabeth on April 17, 2020, 10:05 pmHi Again,
Not to be too personally obsessed about my current line of thinking, but...I can't help it. I'm twelve weeks pregnant as of today, and whether the severe flu I had back in February was "just" the flu, or COVID, my second bout of it literally began the day after conception. I probably had a fever; I definitely had chills, muscle aches, dry cough, shortness of breath, loss of smell/taste (complete loss for three days), and then severe sinus congestion (not a usual COVID symptom - so maybe "just" the flu after all?).
Anyway, @ggenereux, I don't ask for your opinion lightly, and I of _course_ recogize that you're not treating or recommending any course of action for sickness etc....but I would appreciate your honest opinion: if you were in my shoes, would you be worried about birth defects induced by potentially elevated levels of vitamin A during my flu (which lasted three weeks after onset)?
I'm trying to find any good reasons NOT to worry, but think about it a lot in the current Infection Aware climate, if you know what I mean!
Thanks for any thoughts,
Sarabeth
Tagging Grant in case he has a response. @ggenereux2014
@sarabeth-matilsky Sending a heart emoji. ❤️ Have you ever had the flu during a pregnancy before? Maybe the detox has only improved things over prior pregnancies, not made it worse... Hard to know, though. But babies are so resilient! You have the knowledge to give this baby a great start in life.
I agree with Tim, that maybe seeing a professional about your concerns would be helpful. Even Dr. Smith might have some ideas.
Quote from Sarabeth on April 17, 2020, 10:05 pmHi Again,
Not to be too personally obsessed about my current line of thinking, but...I can't help it. I'm twelve weeks pregnant as of today, and whether the severe flu I had back in February was "just" the flu, or COVID, my second bout of it literally began the day after conception. I probably had a fever; I definitely had chills, muscle aches, dry cough, shortness of breath, loss of smell/taste (complete loss for three days), and then severe sinus congestion (not a usual COVID symptom - so maybe "just" the flu after all?).
Anyway, @ggenereux, I don't ask for your opinion lightly, and I of _course_ recogize that you're not treating or recommending any course of action for sickness etc....but I would appreciate your honest opinion: if you were in my shoes, would you be worried about birth defects induced by potentially elevated levels of vitamin A during my flu (which lasted three weeks after onset)?
I'm trying to find any good reasons NOT to worry, but think about it a lot in the current Infection Aware climate, if you know what I mean!
Thanks for any thoughts,
Sarabeth
Hi @sarabeth-matilsky;
Sorry, I missed your question message earlier.
If it were my wife in your situation, I wouldn’t worry about it, and I wouldn’t want her to worry about it either. There’s no way for me to quantify the potential risk. I would be positive and try to live as stress free as possible.
Grant
@sarabeth-matilsky
During the initial stages of detox , I had the issues of getting flu , sore throat and in general catching infections more often, my immune system was weakened . This also led into increase of my sugar levels ( as with recurrent infections your body produces more insulin) , and finally I figured that it was due to Zinc deficiency , high vitamin A levels are known to deplete Zinc very quickly , and moreover. that tie I wasn't eating enough red meat . I increased my meat consumption ( 400 GM a day ) and took Zinc supplements ( 200 % RDA ) daily for about two weeks , and since then I never had this issues , my HBA1c levels went down and immune system is much better and strong .
and as you mentioned , white rice and just meat is bad combination for detox . I recently developed this lactic acidosis due to Thiamine deficiency , as I was primarily on lots of white rice and beef diet for months , and B deficiencies are very quick to develop, my Thiamine deficiency must have been developed with few weeks of following that diet , but only. recently it became symptomatic. I am not for supplements, but the hey are a total necessary when it comes to severe or clinical deficiency , till its resolved
Also I would like to bring in to your notice , the thing I have observed is that once any deficiency develops , the deficiency is not reversed immediately even with a therapeutic dose , my Thiamine, folate and even Zinc deficiency took at-least a month to settle down after treatment , so be patient in waiting for the recovery to happens , body takes time to heal
this is what my current food profile looks like on nutrition chart
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