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Ways to accelerate vitamin A depletion
Quote from
tim on March 6, 2023, 7:56 am
Thread to discuss the pros and cons of different options.
- Sunbathing. I am doing this at the moment. The downside is your body has to process the toxic retinoid breakdown products, it also reduces my energy levels. I've started taking B vitamins and vitamin C to help process the breakdown products.
- Smoking one or two cigarettes per day. This also produces retinoid breakdown products. I find smoking doesn't reduce my energy levels like sunbathing does but I think it's important to supplement with Bs and C if smoking.
- Liver flushes/emetics to clear retinoid containing bile. These are unpleasant and stressful for the body. The amount of magnesium sulphate used in the flush is stressful to the body. There's a range of other downsides as well. Bile excretion methods do directly expel retinoids though, a major benefit.
- Deliberate hookworm infection which depletes vitamin A and iron and helps to regulate the immune system. Hookworms have to be ordered online. This is probably the most advanced way to deplete vitamin A. While blood letting does not deplete vitamin A hookworms do. Perhaps the body uses vitamin A to fight them. Our ancestors were almost universally infected with hookworms. Hookworm infection is a major cause of vitamin A deficiency in poor countries. While most parasitic infections are bad hookworms have a beneficial effect unless the infection is too heavy. Downsides are people can have allergic reactions to them, the cost and finding a trustworthy seller that screens hookworm hosts for disease.
- Vitamin C megadosing. This does deplete vitamin A but a downside is oxalate production. Perhaps it would be best to discuss an optimal range of intake that balances risk with reward.
Thread to discuss the pros and cons of different options.
- Sunbathing. I am doing this at the moment. The downside is your body has to process the toxic retinoid breakdown products, it also reduces my energy levels. I've started taking B vitamins and vitamin C to help process the breakdown products.
- Smoking one or two cigarettes per day. This also produces retinoid breakdown products. I find smoking doesn't reduce my energy levels like sunbathing does but I think it's important to supplement with Bs and C if smoking.
- Liver flushes/emetics to clear retinoid containing bile. These are unpleasant and stressful for the body. The amount of magnesium sulphate used in the flush is stressful to the body. There's a range of other downsides as well. Bile excretion methods do directly expel retinoids though, a major benefit.
- Deliberate hookworm infection which depletes vitamin A and iron and helps to regulate the immune system. Hookworms have to be ordered online. This is probably the most advanced way to deplete vitamin A. While blood letting does not deplete vitamin A hookworms do. Perhaps the body uses vitamin A to fight them. Our ancestors were almost universally infected with hookworms. Hookworm infection is a major cause of vitamin A deficiency in poor countries. While most parasitic infections are bad hookworms have a beneficial effect unless the infection is too heavy. Downsides are people can have allergic reactions to them, the cost and finding a trustworthy seller that screens hookworm hosts for disease.
- Vitamin C megadosing. This does deplete vitamin A but a downside is oxalate production. Perhaps it would be best to discuss an optimal range of intake that balances risk with reward.
Deleted user, Jenny and 5 other users have reacted to this post.
Deleted userJennyFredHermesMargoAndrew BJoe2
Quote from
Jiří on March 6, 2023, 8:00 am
So you would rather have hookworms and smoke cigarettes than doing liver flushes. That's hilarious.. 😀
So you would rather have hookworms and smoke cigarettes than doing liver flushes. That's hilarious.. 😀
Jenny and Joe2 have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Andrew B on March 6, 2023, 8:16 am
What worked for me was increasing eggs first (choline might be why). It improved and increased bowel movements. It then allowed me to increase sulfur and cruciferous vegetables to I think get rid of even more Vitamin A. Whereas if I increased fibre first then I got weird cramps and symptoms that bile was leaking into my body. Hence, much more effective this way.
A betaine source like wheat or spelt, quinoa or beetroot also helps save choline, improve liver and kidney function and remove Vitamin A.
Exercise, walking, lifting, lymph exercises and relaxation techniques like laughing, brain wave music or yoga. Stress reduction and improving quality of sleep with blackouts and lights off at least an hour before bed. All these tend to help parasympathetic activity too.
What worked for me was increasing eggs first (choline might be why). It improved and increased bowel movements. It then allowed me to increase sulfur and cruciferous vegetables to I think get rid of even more Vitamin A. Whereas if I increased fibre first then I got weird cramps and symptoms that bile was leaking into my body. Hence, much more effective this way.
A betaine source like wheat or spelt, quinoa or beetroot also helps save choline, improve liver and kidney function and remove Vitamin A.
Exercise, walking, lifting, lymph exercises and relaxation techniques like laughing, brain wave music or yoga. Stress reduction and improving quality of sleep with blackouts and lights off at least an hour before bed. All these tend to help parasympathetic activity too.
Jenny, tim and 6 other users have reacted to this post.
JennytimAudreyNavnHermesIngerAGraceJoe2
Quote from
Hermes on March 6, 2023, 8:26 am
I'm waiting for the day that I don't smoke as much. The urge is still pretty much present. Weed helps me to calm down in the evening. Not sure if there is anything specifically helpful about cannabis in the depletion process of vitamin A, other than the smoke inhaled, probably not much different to smoking cigarettes or sitting by a bond fire.
What role do saunas play physiologically in the depletion of vitamin A? They very powerfully activate the parasympathetic system in the body, so there's that, which is helpful for general healing. Again, not sure about the role of hit specifically related to vitamin A depletion.
Something else comes to mind regarding general health: Being outside in the woods. Terpenes are supposed to be responsible for the general feeling of relaxation that one experiences after a few hours in the woods. The Japanes have been at the forefront of this research and coined the term Shinrin-Yoku (bathing in the forest). Personally, I've had periods in my life where I was a lot outside, especially in the woods. And the trees never let me down: I'd feel stressed and worried, walk through the woods for an hour, and I'd feel so different than before.
I'm waiting for the day that I don't smoke as much. The urge is still pretty much present. Weed helps me to calm down in the evening. Not sure if there is anything specifically helpful about cannabis in the depletion process of vitamin A, other than the smoke inhaled, probably not much different to smoking cigarettes or sitting by a bond fire.
What role do saunas play physiologically in the depletion of vitamin A? They very powerfully activate the parasympathetic system in the body, so there's that, which is helpful for general healing. Again, not sure about the role of hit specifically related to vitamin A depletion.
Something else comes to mind regarding general health: Being outside in the woods. Terpenes are supposed to be responsible for the general feeling of relaxation that one experiences after a few hours in the woods. The Japanes have been at the forefront of this research and coined the term Shinrin-Yoku (bathing in the forest). Personally, I've had periods in my life where I was a lot outside, especially in the woods. And the trees never let me down: I'd feel stressed and worried, walk through the woods for an hour, and I'd feel so different than before.
Jenny, tim and 6 other users have reacted to this post.
JennytimAudreyNavnAndrew BIngerAGraceJoe2
Quote from
Hermes on March 6, 2023, 8:27 am
And what about ivermectin? I've heard it mentioned being helpful for vitamin A depletion as well.
And what about ivermectin? I've heard it mentioned being helpful for vitamin A depletion as well.
Joe2 has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jenny on March 6, 2023, 8:30 am
As someone who did mega vitamin C dosing for about 10 months on the Garrett Smith detox programme (big mistake) from end 2018 to summer 2019, I would not recommend it. It made me very ill. I developed edema which went once I stopped vC. Coincidence or causal? Idk. GS thought it slowed ALDH and caused an accumulation of aldehydes, which did fit my symptoms, however, since I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth anymore I don’t claim that is correct. However, I do think that adequate vC is essential and I now take or eat a moderate amount.
I entirely agree with Andrew that choline is essential for vA detox. Phosphatidylcholine is required for phase 2.5 liver detoxification where bile exits hepatocytes (liver cells) and enters bile canaliculi on its way to the gut. Without PC, bile and toxicity gets stuck in the liver and runs the risk of exiting via the ‘back door’ to the blood. As someone who has given myself a seizure disorder by not eating enough choline, well this is where multiple pieces of evidence are pointing, I really think this is utterly vital. I suspect the vA detox increases choline requirements.
Edit: Stress reduction. I’d put this and choline at number 1. Body doesn’t detox well if in sympathetic mode. Need to be in parasympathetic to detox and repair. This is the elephant in the room. I believe this is why I developed vA toxicity in the first place.
As someone who did mega vitamin C dosing for about 10 months on the Garrett Smith detox programme (big mistake) from end 2018 to summer 2019, I would not recommend it. It made me very ill. I developed edema which went once I stopped vC. Coincidence or causal? Idk. GS thought it slowed ALDH and caused an accumulation of aldehydes, which did fit my symptoms, however, since I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth anymore I don’t claim that is correct. However, I do think that adequate vC is essential and I now take or eat a moderate amount.
I entirely agree with Andrew that choline is essential for vA detox. Phosphatidylcholine is required for phase 2.5 liver detoxification where bile exits hepatocytes (liver cells) and enters bile canaliculi on its way to the gut. Without PC, bile and toxicity gets stuck in the liver and runs the risk of exiting via the ‘back door’ to the blood. As someone who has given myself a seizure disorder by not eating enough choline, well this is where multiple pieces of evidence are pointing, I really think this is utterly vital. I suspect the vA detox increases choline requirements.
Edit: Stress reduction. I’d put this and choline at number 1. Body doesn’t detox well if in sympathetic mode. Need to be in parasympathetic to detox and repair. This is the elephant in the room. I believe this is why I developed vA toxicity in the first place.
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AudreyNavnAndrew BIngerJoe2
Quote from
Hermes on March 6, 2023, 8:33 am
What's the role of vitamin D in the vitamin A depletion process? I mean specifically the supplement. Is there some consensus from a vitamin A depletion perspective? I stopped supplementing it years ago and now bath in the sun whenever it's possible. In the winter I visit a solarium once or twice a week to replenish vitamin D. It feels very different than vitamin D supplements. They would make me feel agitated (high calcium?). Being in the sun is very relaxing, but yeah, I feel tired as well afterwards, but in a very good way.
One upside to vitamin D supplements: I'd sleep much better when I took it in the morning. I think it strengthens the circadian rhythm. Alternatively, it's a good idea to be outside in the sun, look at it, for ten to 30 minutes as early as possible after waking up. The sunlight photons signal the brain to decrease melatonin in the brain, increase wakefulness, and also support a good night sleep in the evening because it would also enforce a good circadian rhythm this way. Unfortunately, I've not managed to keep up with such a practice.
What's the role of vitamin D in the vitamin A depletion process? I mean specifically the supplement. Is there some consensus from a vitamin A depletion perspective? I stopped supplementing it years ago and now bath in the sun whenever it's possible. In the winter I visit a solarium once or twice a week to replenish vitamin D. It feels very different than vitamin D supplements. They would make me feel agitated (high calcium?). Being in the sun is very relaxing, but yeah, I feel tired as well afterwards, but in a very good way.
One upside to vitamin D supplements: I'd sleep much better when I took it in the morning. I think it strengthens the circadian rhythm. Alternatively, it's a good idea to be outside in the sun, look at it, for ten to 30 minutes as early as possible after waking up. The sunlight photons signal the brain to decrease melatonin in the brain, increase wakefulness, and also support a good night sleep in the evening because it would also enforce a good circadian rhythm this way. Unfortunately, I've not managed to keep up with such a practice.
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Quote from
tim on March 6, 2023, 8:35 am
Quote from
Jiří on March 6, 2023, 8:00 am
So you would rather have hookworms and smoke cigarettes than doing liver flushes. That's hilarious.. 
Nah, just presenting the options objectively. You want to start another 5 page debate and ruin this thread because of your dumb beliefs about olive oil stones?
Quote from
Jiří on March 6, 2023, 8:00 am
So you would rather have hookworms and smoke cigarettes than doing liver flushes. That's hilarious..
Nah, just presenting the options objectively. You want to start another 5 page debate and ruin this thread because of your dumb beliefs about olive oil stones?
Joe2 has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on March 6, 2023, 8:47 am
@tim-2 hehe and butter/tallow/lard stones. People use any kind of fat. Would love to know that process how olive oil becomes wax that is not oily at all and is covered by hard calcified shell...
@tim-2 hehe and butter/tallow/lard stones. People use any kind of fat. Would love to know that process how olive oil becomes wax that is not oily at all and is covered by hard calcified shell...
Joe2 has reacted to this post.
Quote from
tim on March 6, 2023, 8:50 am
Quote from
Hermes on March 6, 2023, 8:33 am
What's the role of vitamin D in the vitamin A depletion process? I mean specifically the supplement. Is there some consensus from a vitamin A depletion perspective? I stopped supplementing it years ago and now bath in the sun whenever it's possible. In the winter I visit a solarium once or twice a week to replenish vitamin D. It feels very different than vitamin D supplements. They would make me feel agitated (high calcium?). Being in the sun is very relaxing, but yeah, I feel tired as well afterwards, but in a very good way.
Calcitriol just competes with retinoic acid at nuclear receptors, vitamin D doesn't help to deplete vitamin A much as far as I know. UV significantly depletes retinoids in the skin. Sunbathing or using a Sperti lamp has a long list of benefits like nitric oxide production and myostatin inhibition in addition to vitamin D production.
Quote from
Hermes on March 6, 2023, 8:33 am
What's the role of vitamin D in the vitamin A depletion process? I mean specifically the supplement. Is there some consensus from a vitamin A depletion perspective? I stopped supplementing it years ago and now bath in the sun whenever it's possible. In the winter I visit a solarium once or twice a week to replenish vitamin D. It feels very different than vitamin D supplements. They would make me feel agitated (high calcium?). Being in the sun is very relaxing, but yeah, I feel tired as well afterwards, but in a very good way.
Calcitriol just competes with retinoic acid at nuclear receptors, vitamin D doesn't help to deplete vitamin A much as far as I know. UV significantly depletes retinoids in the skin. Sunbathing or using a Sperti lamp has a long list of benefits like nitric oxide production and myostatin inhibition in addition to vitamin D production.
Fred, Navn and 3 other users have reacted to this post.
FredNavnHermesAndrew BJoe2
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