I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
What can go wrong with eating eggs ?
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The egg yolk contains phosphatidylcholine which helps repair cell membranes. It might increase release of toxins in the damaged cells.
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The egg white contains about double the sulphur amino acids that are also in the egg yolk because the white is about double the size of the yolk. Those with sulphur problems might try omitting the egg white.
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The egg white is mostly albumin. Many people allergic or intolerant to eggs turn out to have the problem with the albumin. Try leaving out the white.
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Phosphatidylcholine in the yolk at about 125 mgs tends to improve bile flow. Some people dont tolerate even 1 egg on this basis whereas I could tolerate about 4 eggs and then 7 eggs on one occasion many months later. Diarrhea or even constipation seems to result. In long term gluten intolerance or irritable bile syndrome it could be something to do with the emulsifier effect and perhaps not enough fibre.
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Phosphatidylcholine improving the bile flow might lead to an increase in bile getting into the blood through the bile ducts and organs at first until repair takes place. There could be a blockage and initially this might get slightly worse before it gets better.
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The increase in fat may be sufficient to irritate the gallbladder especially in those following a low fat approach. This might also happen when more eggs are eaten too quickly.
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Phosphatidylcholine might give bile flow a boost before detox pathways are improved. This might happen if glucuronidation is poor from a restrictive diet. Or sulfation is poor. Increased use of ALDH7A1 might use more B6 because the conversion of choline to betaine is happening too much. More betaine food sources may be needed to reduce the need for conversion.
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Phosphatidylcholine might increase bile flow and exacerbate eczema in the short term for those with histamine problems perhaps because the intestinal barrier takes some time to heal. It's suggested that histamine problems are addressed before increasing eggs or phosphatidylcholine too much.9. Phosphatidylcholine in eggs is usually well absorbed so they are very unlikely to increase TMAO (Trimethylamine-N-oxide) from unabsorbed choline unless jumping to say 4 too quickly at the start with pre-existing gut problem or at least 12 a day in my estimation.10. Phosphatidylcholine increases the detox through the bile so in theory taking supplements stimulating detox might need to be lowered at least initially at introduction of eggs. Zinc, selenium, high dose B vitamins and molybdenum are some examples of common ones taken.11. Phosphatidylcholine increases the detox through the bile so in theory more fibre might be needed in the short term whilst healing takes place. Phosphatidylcholine should make the detox safer in the long term.12. Increasing betaine foods or TMG supplement might help to reduce choline being diverted to betaine production.13. I increased B1 foods at the same time as betaine foods and increasing eggs. The exact timing may differ for others but B1 might help digestion for a large number of reasons including helping acetylcholine and inhibiting acetylcholine esterase which could be a case of finding the right amount needed to help gut motility.14. There is some B5 in eggs but it might help to improve your B5 levels before taking eggs especially if sleep or skin is poor. B5 could be helping fatty acid synthesis.15. The phosphatidylcholine might displace oxalates. Some people report re-occurrence of oxalate symptoms with the increase. It could be something else nevertheless it's been observed.16. Some people react to all vitamin A and this could be because they are creating anhydroretinol. They need to work on gut dysbiosis per Meredith Arthur's work and solutions for anhydroretinol. More likely is that they have yeast or bacteria that cannot synthesise choline.17. A possibility here that has emerged from nervous system calming work programmes. If someone is told repeatedly that a certain food is a POISON then it is possible that the subconscious will cause a reaction to that food due to the belief. This is a known phenomenon. This could be a highly significant factor for some people. If so we need to address this. Using the term poison for something contained in most food is not helpful in any way (or indeed accurate). Please ignore the poison rhetoric and return to a healthier relationship with food.
It is TMA not TMAO that is the problematic molecule IMO. TMA is readily formed from PC.
How to mitigate harm from TMA?
1. TMA production can be reduced by consuming foods like pomegranate juice, certain culinary herbs and garlic.
2. Avoid overconsumption of red meat and eggs.
3. Support liver function. A healthy liver rapidly metabolizes TMA into TMAO.
Eggs contain large amounts of cholesterol.
If someone with liver dysfunction starts eating many eggs per day the cholesterol may be poorly processed by the liver and may even contribute to cholelithiasis.
Hypervitaminosis A tends to cause chronic subclinical Hypovitaminosis C. Because the cholesterol to bile acid synthesis pathway is vitamin C dependent it's crucial to keep vitamin C levels sufficient if someone is recovering from Hypervitaminosis A and eating more eggs.
I ate eggs daily for at least 53 years. Constipation was a problem during that time. I quit eating eggs when I removed sources of vit A and beta-carotene from my diet and it was then that things got better for me. I don't know how that fits in with the discussion of phosphatidylcholine. I did try to eat a daily egg for about 2 months recently after all the discussions about how good they are but they did not help me to feel better. The only eggs I eat now are in something like a muffin or when I visit relatives.
If eggs are so good at solving vitamin A overload in the liver, why didn't they work for me all along? (I never used cod liver oil and did not eat liver)
Hey Andrew,
I find this post to be deeply troubling. Basically what you’ve listed here is 17 reasons why someone should not be consuming eggs.
In the past I’ve asked you multiple times to explain why if your primary thesis is about the benefits of choline then why not get it from non-eggs sources. I’ve never received a legitimate and valid answer to that question. It’s just been a bunch of hand-waving type of excuses. I find it very hard to believe that consuming more vitamin A, especially when pre-emulsified in egg yolks, is going to benefit someone suffering from vA toxicity.
Moreover, in the past I’ve shared multiple accounts with you of people in the low vA community who have been harmed and seen significant setbacks when attempting to include eggs.
And last night I emailed you yet another account. A long-term low vA person, doing great, introduced eggs, and was very seriously harmed. And of course, eggs are definitely one of the primary "trigger" foods know to cause autoimmune disease flareups.
You just keep on conveniently ignoring these real world results.
But, I find this last point of yours to be so incredibly disingenuous, I’m almost angry about it.
- A possibility here that has emerged from nervous system calming work programmes. If someone is told repeatedly that a certain food is a POISON then it is possible that the subconscious will cause a reaction to that food due to the belief. This is a known phenomenon. This could be a highly significant factor for some people. If so we need to address this. Using the term poison for something contained in most food is not helpful in any way (or indeed accurate). Please ignore the poison rhetoric and return to a healthier relationship with food.
So what you are claiming, it’s all just in their head, and they are only imagining it. No sorry, it is not just in their head, it’s physically clear and visibly on their skin.
Your egg promoting advice is harming some people!
And I told you about it again just last night and your response is to just brush it aside as if it’s nothing.
See ya, please go push your egg eating non-sense somewhere else.
Why would you promote Andrew to the role of moderator and then ban him a few days later? I think it was unwise of Andrew to post about eggs again when people here had concerns about them, which I can understand. And yet, he and many others have found moderate vitamin A consumption to be beneficial when going ultra low did not produce results. I have been on the ultra low vitamin A approach for four years with no significant results, actually getting worse, and have been supplementing with lecithin and phosphatidylcholine for almost a year. It's time to acknowledge that low vitamin A doesn't work for everyone like it did for you, and maybe it's wiser to go moderate and support the body with additional nutrients to support the detoxification pathways. It's really not as simple and straightforward for most people as it was for you.
By blocking Andrew, you are actually dismissing other voices of reason that have much to contribute. Please unblock him and have a personal chat over Skype and discuss your differences. I thought Andrew was a good fit as a moderator, but perhaps he needs to be careful about what he says so that the forum remains balanced and you feel it still represents your core belief, which I share: that vitamin A is a poison.
Andrew build on your original work. I don't know of anyone else who has contributed as much to the community. Again, please talk, share your differences, and resolve this conflict privately. Andrew would be a great loss to this forum.
I gave eggs a chance for a couple weeks because of how heavily they were being pushed here. My rash did not get better, it seemed worse, more itchy. I was starting small with one egg. I honestly felt like talking about my experience would make me enemies here! We cannot be so wed to a particular food. Even with beans we can get the same benefits from other sources of soluble fiber so I'm not the bean queen as much as I just want people to have healthy bile. When it gets thick and sticky it is actually being hydrogenated and that's what forms stones and causes many women particularly to have their gallbladder taken out. I don't think women who eats eggs avoid this possibility when their bile recipe changes (yes that is a Garrett Smith saying but it works). I don't think choline is the end all be all for everyone. I personally am too cholinergic. It causes anxiety from being too far on the parasympathetic side. Too much cholinergic activity can make me very panicky. Promoting acetylcholine didn't show the positive results in degenerative brain disease as they thought it would.
This is completely anecdotal but last time I tried eating eggs every morning I suffered from panic attacks after a few months. It took months to recover from that. I did have some life stressors too at the time, but my neurotransmitters being off and all that extremely absorbable retinol just magnified it. I feel very calm and able to tackle life's stress just getting choline from beef and eliminating excess stress hormones via soluble fiber.
I have previously made some trials with eggs too with mixed results. What I mean by mixed it seemed somewhat good for hair but bad for skin - I had and increase in seb derm which I experienced from other high vit A food like cheese. It gave me an increase in sweating too (which can be attributed to choline it seems). So I would stop those trials rather quickly.
Grant is not running this blog for personal profit. The moderator who was recently appointed and then removed, advertises consults , by video call, to offer help based on his personal experience in lowering vitamin A, and to try and restore hair loss, maybe not a perfect fit to moderate.
Other bloggers freely do this, on their own pages as well, and charge for their advice and opinions but would also not be a great fit as far as my thinking goes to moderate a non profit blog discussion. They are free to do what they want on their own websites and blogs.
Garret has picked up this work and charges, but also on his own website and YouTube as well as having credentials and does not write on this discussion.
I had been pretty strict low A for quite a few years after discovering Grant's books with great autoimmune improvements. Adding eggs to my diet only for a year resulted in a year with non stop inflammatory autoimmune flare ups, 2 cases of shingles, second one leaving me with weakness in one leg, and lets add squamous cell carcinoma plus Mohs surgery. One year. And it was no more than one or two eggs several times a week.
I am back to strictly low A foods since diagnosis in February. It took 5 months but condition is once again in full remission, inflammation gone since June. I for one will never go off this diet, way too risky. There are plenty of good things to eat.
As far as I'm concerned Grants experiment has been a success, and I am grateful for what he has done
"The moderator who was recently appointed and then removed, advertises consults , by video call, to offer help based on his personal experience in lowering vitamin A, and to try and restore hair loss, maybe not a perfect fit to moderate."
Yeah I did feel like he saw people here as "maybe someday they will promote me or work with me".